Exhorbent prices - Page 3

Everyone is looking for something different. Many people get years upon years of joy and companionship from a pound dog. I know I have. The difference, however, is exponential as the expectations go up. A breeding animal differs from any other in the likely quality of its offspring. If you figure that 70% of your pups are about average( excellent pets), 25% have problems( hips, elbows, etc.), 5% might be superior in their training ability, structure, etc. (all together). It follows that some price bleed might occur from one class of pup to another. We all must be sure when we spend our money that we are buying what is of value to US and not a brand name that does not reproduce itself.

Yep Urmangsd, chilled semen is cheaper IF you can find a vet in your area to do an AI. Not every area is blessed with this type of facility or vets with this knowledge. Plus as I'm sure you know, any type of AI is just simply not as reliable as a natural breeding. One thing I forgot to mention earlier was the hours and hours that go into properly taking care of a litter. The first couple of weeks are fairly easy except for the temperature control and the stress associated with taking care of such vulnerable creatures. Unfortunately, during the first few days you can experience some puppy loss. And sometimes, you have to tube feed a weak puppy, and of course you weigh them once or twice a day. And you have to watch and care for mum. There are some terrible things that can happen during this early period. And proper clean up and disinfection is constant. We figured that we are working for a few cents per hour. And like others have mentioned, if someone can't afford our pups or even questions the price, they are off our list. If they quibble about selling price, they simply cannot afford to take care of them properly. Again, if you object to puppy costs, breed your own!!

Price of female $5000(SchH I, V, Lebenzeit KK1), cost of breeding $850, Annual feed cost $500, Annual Heartworm/flea/tick $400, 1st vet visit with puppies, $200, 2nd vet visit with puppies to include tattoos $400, Flight cost(includes shipping dog) to Germany and return from breeding $$$, deworming for litter $50, car rental and food while in Germany for the rental $600, time spent socializing and rearing puppies, including weaning-priceless. 6-7%? Gotta say one thing Bob-O, it's a FAIR price for the consumer. LOL $1200, full registration is my asking price. This is why I run a waiting list and have homes lined up BEFORE the breeding. Stephen

Stephen, thanks for reinforcing the value (cost to produce) of a puppy and furnishing a bit better application towards dogs that just the elementary business model that I used. Mine cannot be applied 100% to the puppy whelping world, but I use it as an example of hidden costs and variables. The hypothetical statement that I used to explain the value of a puppy from a high-line breeding was being a bit cheap, as I placed the basic value of each bitch at $ 10,000.00. And we know that a premimium bitch purchased as a puppy for a very normal price ($ 1,200.00-$ 2,000.00) such as in your example, will quickly increase in value because of the required care and all of the value-adding things that must occur in her life in order to achieve the titles and conformation pass and be ready to produce at the age of two (2) or three (3) years. And if you place a value on your time during all of the care provided before, during, and after the whelp, you hope that you made $ 0.10 per hour. Again, the price is first determined by value (the true cost of making those puppies) and then what the market can bear. I think that for high-line puppies we accept that $ 1,200.00-$ 2,000.00 is a normal (fair) price, but I think that all of us wince when we see a baby puppy with a $ 3,500.00 price tag. When the cost passes $ 2,000.00 is when I start wincing. Bob-O

Correction to one (1) statement that I made, as it was late when I typed it. """""Hence, what often appears to be unfair pricing for puppies if one makes a factual analysis of all of the puppies for sale, and the cost that went into those puppies."""""" That should have read:"""""Hence, what often appears to be unfair pricing for puppies UNLESS one makes a factual analysis of all of the puppies for sale, and the cost that went into those puppies.""""" And that said I'll shut my mouth. Bob-O

Bob-O, please accept my apology if I seemed to come off as miffed by your analysis. I certainly was not. I was just trying to make my own point, I guess in a very clumsy way. I do, however, like your second take much better. SGBH, If you can buy a titled female such as you mentioned for $5000 USD, PLEASE tell me where. I look often and I've not seen anything worth a second look that was anywhere near $5000 and that's in Euro!

Friends, Wagonmaster......Friends. No one will go over and get a titled dog for that price, without an inside track. Some people deny it can be done period, even with friends, but it can. The price of a dog(a good one, not a reject) from a friend you can look in the eye and trade Christmas cards with for 26 years is not even the same game as coming to a web site, and comparing prices with sharks. Apples and Oranges, no comparison. I can tell you where I got mine and you can go there but your price will almost double. If you look at the long term and cultivate valued friendships, it is no comparison to the short term make a quick buck game, that is going on out there. If you do progesterone tests, Bob-O you can count on $40 per pop, average. Depending on the female and her cycle lenght, you can do 10(TEN) of those to predict ovulation. If you want someone other than your neighbors to know you have puppies, you have to include website cost, ect. This is the BARE minimum and throw in a C-section if there are complications, and you can even ask for less than that 6-7%, if you are REAL nice guy. LOL

Wagonmaster, no apology needed. I'm a big boy and did not take it in a bad way. I was just trying to apply basic business principles without being overy complex. Now, in the end here's my question for everyone here: How many RICH breeders do any of us know? I don't know a single one, even the ones with nice kennels and top high-line dogs. They are all work-a-day folks just like me. I keep an extensive kennel ledger for income tax purposes, and lose money every year-more than I care to admit. Some year hopefully soon we will produce two (2) litters without any complications and perhaps break even, and save our butts from the scourage of the I.R.S. Stephen, man you're right about the unknowns. The final puppy of last year's litter was taken by C-section, so her "cost to produce" increased by $ 496.00 immediately. On that particlar litter, we "cleared" approximately $ 1,000.00 from the time of the stud contract, through the whelp with its C-section, the immunizations, the advertising, etc. and from our "profit" had enough money left over to feed the dam and one (1) of our other dogs for a whole year. And there are three (3) more dogs here who need to eat..... Bob-O

IMO.. Nothing wrong with making money and let the market set the price. That's the way the free market works. When money is involved you will always have some people who abuse and take advantage of people, especially those who don't know what they are buying, especially those who really just want a pet. I myself have no problem paying $1500.00 for a top quality pup but would never pay $800.00 for a pet quality. I usually over the years buy working dogs and pay $500.00 for a high caliber pup. You need to realize most good litters have at most 1-3 top quality pups and the rest may be very good but still not top quality. When you buy a pup that had say 7 pups and they have three to four left to pick from you likely are paying $1500 to $2000 for hopefully a good pup but possibly one much less than top quality. This is just my opinion but I believe it very strongly. I do understand their is always exceptions and especially when the first pups selected were from a novice who may have picked on color or size.

Breeders can charge whatever they think their dogs are worth and/or what the market in their area will bear. The buyer can either pay the price if they think the dog is worth it or move on to another breeder. The price of GSD puppies are all over the board; the ones I know of personally have ranged from $500 to $7,500. Take your pick.