Exhorbent prices - Page 5

I think all of us here are on the same page and yet we're arguing too much to even realize it. IF some of you took the time to read my posts well, you'll know exactly what I said. To the effect of what I said in earlier posts. It's my opinion that when a breeder charges OVER $1000 for a PET quality puppy on LIMITED registration. I think that their cheating the actual MARKET value of what that pup is. (forget how much it may have cost to produce that individual litter) I DO believe that a good price for a PET quality PUPPY on LIMITED registration is $800-$1000. OF course a puppy on a FULL registration should be more, and of course a show/breeding/working prospect puppy should be more. It's my personal opinion (however I think there is more flex to this) is that charging MORE than $1200 for a puppy that is YOUNGER than 5 months (heck, that should probably be more like 3 months) on a full registration for a breeding/show prospect is asking a bit too much. However I would not complain paying up to $1800 if that puppy came from a sire and dam that were rated amoung the top 100 dogs in the world. As for an imported puppy, of course the shipping charges and paper work headache of getting the puppy to it's new home and a lil extra just because the pup is imported...that puppy will be more expensive naturally. NOW...when it comes to any dog/puppy OVER 5 MONTHS old, the price will continue to climb. I am absolutely not arguing one bit on the costs for an adult, proven, titled dog....unless the asking price is $1 million. I personally would have no qualms paying $10,000. for a young titled and quality bitch. AND I do know what it takes to raise a litter. Although I have personally never put the money into doing it myself YET. I HAVE raised more than 60 litters that were not my own, but for another breeder. I have assisted in 11 C-sections to date. I have bottle fed and tube fed puppies. I have seen highly anticipated litters turn out only 1 or 2 puppies after thousands of dollars were already spent trying to produce the litter. I have seen entire litters die, I have seen bitches die. I know the expenses that can and will occur. IF you are a small breeder who turns out less than 3 litters a year then yes, you are likely to loose money, and maybe you should charge a lil more for your puppies to afford to keep in the breed. A breeder who produces more than 4 litters a year will have the costs of producing puppies spread around, and they are more easily able to charge less for a puppy. MY beef is with those breeders/importers who are selling PET quality puppies for $2000+ and the show/breeding prospects for $3000-$8000 FOR AN 8 WEEK OLD PUPPY. That IS exhorbent and ridiculous

LOL, since you have said you would pay 10K for a dog I am thinking you will be getting a lot of PM's today from those who just happen to have such a dog for sale. For what it's worth, I understand and agree with what you're saying, it's been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. IMO when a breed becomes a money breed, it's never a good thing. However, as long as there are those who will pay those prices thinking the more they spend, the better the dog, there will always be breeders who will gladly take advantage of that share of the market.

Urmangsd, I read your first post thoroughly, and through your last post you and I are on the same page, so to speak. Basically, I agree with your final statements in your last post. In my opinion anyone who would pay that price for a baby puppy really does not care what it cost (Porsche vs. Volkswagen), and just drives some of the prices higher and beyond the means of the rest of us. Bob-O

Blitzen: Uh oh...well...it'll be interesting to see what I get offered! perhaps I should have included that I'm not in the market for any more animals since I simply don't have the room. But when I finally do get my own farm then I'll be in the market. I did get emails from folks lambasting me for not appreciating the cost of what goes into a litter...and most of the folks included THEIR opinions and quotes for puppy prices and ALL of them were cheaper or the same as my opinion/quotes! I found that to be pretty amusing. Bob-O: definately on the same page, thats why I had a paragraph about what kind of people I would sell too, if I was a car saleswoman I would love to be selling to the porsche crowd. But when it comes to selling pups, the volkswagon crowd would be more my target. That being said, I sure wouldn't mind having a porsche, or a lovely little jaguar convertible in a hunter green color and a dark brown top. LOL Courtney

Urmangsd, I believe that is "British Racing Green". How well I know, I had a Triumph when I was younger. With apologies to British sports car lovers-Definition of Triumph=noun="Hole in the road through that money is poured." Ah, but it was sexy! Bob-O

My husband and I paid $2500 for a first-pick (V-rated, imported & titled parentage) cryptorchid puppy. No, we didn't know that sometimes testicles don't descend and that if they don't, you can't show, breed, or title them. The breeder never mentioned to us that it hadn't descended yet - and we didn't know to ask. Well, we have a wonderful pet. But, I guarantee we will never pay that again for another dog. We haven't been offered any monetary compensation either. Of course, we LOVE him, we're not going to give him back. Live and learn.

Seems that your situation goes straight to the heart of what Bob-O was talking about: that is, value. You thought you were getting a show-quality pup for your $2,500 - in other words, that you would receive the value associated with the then-apparent potential for him to be shown at some later date, should all other necessary factors work out. The breeder provided you with something less than that, which of course bothers you and should bother you, especially if the breeder knew the puppy had undescended testicles at the time of sale. It's one thing for a testicle to go back up after the pup is sold - then a replacement only remedy would be fair. But to hold a purchaser to replacement only if the breeder knew both testicles weren't down at the time of sale is likely fraud. But...had the pup NOT been cryptorchid, then you would likely feel better about the price, I'm guessing. Personally I think $2,500 is steep for an 8-week-old pup that isn't directly out of BSZS VA or known-producer high V parentage, but there are folks charging twice and even three times as much. Not that this will make you feel great about your personal value received to price charged discrepancy, but it could have been much worse!

You can buy a nice female for 900 Euro, raise it, train it to the best of your ability(what ever that is) and have the titles, show ratings, AD, and Korung done for another 2500 Euro(some places a little less) and for 3400 Euro(or about $5000) you have a nice female for breeding, showing, competing, ect. The last puppy I bought, I went that route. The last adult famale I bought was SchH 1 titled, with AD. I paid 3500 Euro for her(about $5000) and put the Korung and V rating on her myself. If you want to pay $10,000 for a female, that is one's own preference. I guess you could even convince/impress yourself(and others around you) that, that is REALLY what it takes to "be in the game". But that is not something that has to happen to get a good dog. It all comes down to expectations, I guess. It sure does hurt if your $10000 purchase is not worth it, however(based on your expectations, of course). Now if you want the VAs, of course, you will have to pay the big bucks. A good dog, at a REASONABLE price is not an insurmountable task. And you don't have to bribe people with gym shoes, Jack Danials, T-shirts or any other gimic to do so. Personally, I would not risk insulting someone with this tactic.

Stephen, everyone else, I was kidding about the American whiskey. I never used it in any dog business with anyone. After Shelley mentioned the shoes, it reminded me of some bad days of the past when it was very helpful to have a few "gifts" if you strayed too close to the Eastern border. Stephen's right, don't offer a gimmicky gift to anyone. Deal straight up, and save the whiskey (or the shoes, or anthing else) as a thank-you gift if it is desired. Bob-O

Goodness me. I have been taken far too seriously on that count. No amount of shoes could not have begun to compensate for the generousity and gracious hospitality I have enjoyed while staying as a guest in my German dog-friends' homes. Dollars to Deutschmarks to Dog-deals, they don't mean diddly. BUT, regarding the "bad days of the past" Bob-O mentioned: Hmmmmmm.... Sounds like Bob-O has been around for awhile... Ha ha ha. I DO remember a time, not THAT long ago, when a bottle of good Western Brandy, proferred as a "gift" (pardon the pun) on the "other" side of the wall would get a dog buyer literally ANYTHING they desired in the way of "official" documentation. Titles, show ratings, breed ratings, hip ratings, even ANCESTRY!.. all were "negotiable" once the much-anticipated gifts moved from car truck to table. Having witnessed these negotiations in person, to this day I am reluctant, as a breeder with a plan for the future, to invest time and money in Eastern European bloodlines. Sure, there are a LOT of really good dogs coming out of the Eastern block countries now. But always in the back of my head, knowing what I know, I always WONDER... Who IS this dog REALLY? Does ANYBODY know? ...and what are we liable to get when we breed this dog? How does "hybrid vigor" (read: total outcrossing) figure in my plans, given I may not live more than 20 more years? Hmmmmm.