long haired GSD's - Page 1

For years here in the U.S. I personally had never seen a long haired GSD. Now after reading so many ads on this database I see so many ads for long haired GSD's for sale. I was just reading some info on the GSD.com website and saw this, Effective for breedings taking place on or after January 1, 1999, long stock hair coat type is banned for breeding purposes. This requires that both parents must possess stock hair coat types for litters to be eligible for registration in the USA/SV Breed Registry Program. Why are folks using the dogs that are throwing these long haired pups for breeding. I thought that I read one time that this is a fault. I haven't bred a lot of litters but have had a few in the past 30+ years and have never had a long haired pup. Please don't start WW III over this question, it is just that, a question.

This is a perfectly acceptable question. There are certain lines out there that do retain the long coat gene. It can be a bit of a crap shoot when it comes to the puppies-I have long coat male who comes from two regular coat parents. Of a litter of 7, there were two coats(he was one) and rest were regular. On a repeat breeding, there were no coats. Ideally, you try and do a breeding that would produce all stock coats, but sometimes Mother Nature has other ideas. Now of those puppies from the repeat breeding, I think there are two girls that are producing but I don't know if there have been any coats from their first litters. Those genes could remain recessive until the next right combination hits. You're probably seeing more coats because there is more exchange going on between countries.

There is a DNA test available to identify the normal coated dogs that carry the LC gene.

Ditto Blitzen. There are many excellent sires and bitches that when used together produce a longhair or two in each liter because they each possess the recessive gene for this. Should these be selectively culled from a breeding programme? In my opinion, no. As further genetic discovery about the dogs is made, then selective breeding to non-carriers can be done with these dogs, but that will still produce a certain number of carriers, say 25%-50%, but no longhair puppies. There are those who love the longcoat dog, and want nothing else. I agree that a TRUE longcoat (no undercoat) is a fault and should not be produced, but the longcoat (with undercoat) was many, many years ago included in the breed standard, so the genetics is virtually impossible to dodge unless we cull many dogs and bitches. In my opinion this is a dog that all can occassionally produce without problems. I would see a problem if much of repeated litters contained a lot of these puppies. I think that we could possibly cull the dogs who produce the TRUE longcoat (no undercoat), but this very well may be an additional genetic marker that we have yet to identify. Bob-O

Another question.... Is their a connection between dogs with excellent show coats that tend to have the LC gene?

I was just thinking about what many Malamute breeders say about that, Rangers. Many feel that the LC gene is needed to produce the correct double coats needed for a sleddog (and a show dog of course). I have thought about that and paid attention to the dogs I've seen over the last 35 years and now think that it could very well be true. Eliminating the LC gene from the gene pool may result in coats that are too short and lacking in undercoat. When I was breeding that breed, I never produced a LC, never used one for breeding, tried to avoid carriers. Overall my dogs had very short coats and most could have used more undercoat. My friends who used LCs or dogs that carried that gene seemed to have fuller and more weather-resistant coats. A double coat is a survival characteristic for a sled dog and a herding dog. Many times one could almost tell which dogs/bitches were going to throw coats just by looking at their coat length and texture. If I had it to do over again, I would probably not eliminate known carriers of the LC gene from my breeding program. Frankly, I think it's much ado about nothing and feel there are many other far more important things to consider when breeding GSD's than if they carry the LC gene. Most GSD breeders are not just breeding for pretty dogs that can move well as I did with my AKC dogs, you have a lot more requirements that take a higher priority I should think. I will not use the DNA test for any of my Mals and I probably wouldn't test a GSD either.(It is the same DNA test and is now approved for Mals, GSD's and Corgis.)

I totally agree that eliminating long stock coats would cut a lot of otherwise great dogs out of the gene pool. Besides which, one thing that I am figuring out is that exactly what constitutes a long stock and what differentiates one from a plush is largely subjective and very much a matter of opinion.

I think a plush and a long stock would be genetically identical and both would test positive for the LC gene. Either could probably produce both types of coats as well. It all depends on how the modifier genes line up. As you said, differentiating one from the other is often a matter of personal interpretation. No one ever said it was going to be easy, did they LOL?

All but one of my dogs are long coats all have very good under coats and all are from short coated dogs, All of our puppies have great coats and we still get short coated pup's from 2 long coats take a look at the pedigrees on www.kazetigsds.co.uk and make up your own mind up, but think you'll agree that they are all great looking dogs. The LC gene is a natural gene and should be left well alone

Uh, not trying to start an arguement, but it's impossible to get short coats from 2 LC's.