Successful Working Line Breeders - Page 5

Just because a dog does not out does not mean it is not a good strong dog. In fact I would say that it is the opposite. It may not be the best point dog but in no way does it mean it is not a good dog. Look at John Ribonis dog Brix. Outstanding scores, I think a 97 in protection. If I remember correctly he did not out in the Regionals. Also, what does a bloodline have to do with going to the Nationals. It is the dog not the bloodline. The Bloodline is a good place to start. But I have never met a dog that can read its own pedigree, have you?

Actually, the handler/trainer, helper and club support can have a heck of a lot to do with it also.

Again my point wasnt about what dog outs or doesnt out. I am simply tired of "my dog is better than your dog". As S vargas said, I have seen dogs with bad pedigrees do better than dogs with good pedigrees and bad handlers. Funny story about outing, I saw on TV the other night this police k9 GSD that bit a fleeing suspect on the leg and would NOT let go. He thrashed that guy all around this alley, I think he was trying to carry the guy like he was a sleeve. That guy just hollered and hollered and I couldnt help but laugh. Crack heads beware!!

"This is a working dog event. 88 and 86 are pretty soft protection scores for a national event. It is noteworthy that there are three dogs from the same kennel, but engaging and outing are only remarkable at a show dog event." This is both an ignorant statement and an insightful statement... It is ignorant to evaluate a dog based on a score, especially on one score out of three on one particular day. People who do that miss a lot of nice dogs. And 86 and 88 are not necessarily "soft." The scores may have been due to 1,000's of different reasons. Which brings us to the insightful part of the statement..."that there are three dogs from the same kennel." Yes, it does show nice consistency. This little discussion is a small glimpse of the larger problem with many breedings today. A couple of people have noted the importance of percentages that I mentioned above. If you throw enough crap at the wall, some of it will stick, but that is not an intelligent way to go about doing anything. Working dogs, studying dogs, careful planning, and following the dogs you produce will not guaranty anything, but it improve your percentages. Far too many people just breed to the latest high scorer... or breed dogs they have never worked, watched, or ever seen based only on pedigrees. But hey if you breed enough dogs, maybe something will stick. Breeding dogs is both an art and a craft. And it is also a big responsibility. Too bad a lot of people don't see it that way. But they sure see the $$$. You have people that have never trained a Sch dog breeding dogs and lots of them! IMHO breeders should have a goal, a plan, a vision if you will. They should be trying to produce a type... their type... whatever that is. But if you have never worked, handled, raised or title a SchH dog, how the hell do you know what it all means to say a dog is hard, or soft, or guidable, or stubborn, or is a natural tracker, or has an edge in protection. Simple... you don't. All you know is what other people tell you about certain dogs. And who on this list, or anywhere else, agrees with everything someone tells you. No one. If you have any cognitive ability and sense of self, you form your own opinions. Which may or may not agree with everyone elses. That's called thinking - and using common sense - something that I find disturbingly absent in many circumstances. And why does everyone lay the responsibly on the breeder to produce a world champion dog??? The breeder should carefully research the breeding, do their best to evaluate the potential sire/dam, breed to his/her vision and do their best to properly imprint and evaluate the litter to 8 weeks. Then when you show up, they can tell what they were hoping to produce and what the see in these pups (as far as you can tell from an 8 week old pup). Then guess what... they become the buyers responsibly. And the buyer has to do just as much homework as the breeder does, so you buy the right dog for you. Maybe the breeder produced the "perfect" dog according to their vision, but you did not purchase the "perfect" dog for your style/needs/etc. There are certain types of dogs I don't like. If a breeder breeds the type of dog I don't like, I don't go there for a puppy. That does not make them a bad breeder or me a bad trainer... that just means our needs are different. In fact it makes them a great breeder because they know what they are trying to produce and me a responsible handler because I know what I am looking for.

Quote: "dogford4 that is hilarious! Someone tried to pat themself on the back, you called them on it. My feeling is tell people how great OTHER people's dogs are, let your scores and results do the talking for yourself." Actually Eagle deserves all the praise anybody wants to heap on him. He's SCHHIII about 25 times I believe. And competing in the Nationals at 9 years old! I've seen this dog work He's a fantastic dog. And now retired from what I understand. So he didn't out this time, so what. That doesn't take anything away from all of his past accomplishments. Maybe he knew he was going to be retired and didn't want to let go. People here are SOOO quick to criticize.

James, he's 5-5 on Drigon, with Lord, Mink and Fax in it's lines. A hard dog with very high drives. You'll have to wait for anything else.

I know this is a little late in the game to chime in here, and I've never felt the need to "contribute" to the Jerry Springer show before, but I will anyway. For the three Germelhaus dogs at the nationals, one has been a two time world team member, one was selected this year as alternate, and the other, well, he's mine and lets just call him "handler" challenged. Anyone who saw him in Alabama can decide for themselves if he is a dog who a breeder should be proud to have produced or not....clearly, I'm too bias to make that decision. But as for a "soft" protection routine, no fewer than 10 of his 14 lost points in protection were due to slow outs (multiple commands on two of his outs).....his grips and guarding were both excellent, what we ran into was a control problem that's been building up for a while and finally surfaced this fall with a month and a half of no training leading up to the nationals due to a neck injury.

To me Ranger was one of the most powerful dogs of the whole competition and being able to see the dog every week at training all I can say is that he is one most powerful dogs I have ever seen. His drives definitely make him a big challenge to train, we can all just be pleased is that he is not handler aggressive. Anybody who has seen his performance at the Nationals and has just a little knowledge about dogs should have been able to see what he is all about. All three brother are super dogs, are coming with the full package of what makes an excellent working dog. Yaras first litter will be from Ranger and I have very high expectations for these puppies. spook101, therefor I really cannot understand your post from November 18th. If you were there I do not know what you have seen or where you were while the boys were on the field.

To all involved, I apologise for my choice of words. I did not mean 'soft' as far as temperment. I was trying to say that when you lose that many points in a phase you are pretty far much out of the race. My personal feeling is that you need to score in the mid nineties up to compete. There were only a couple of dogs that could be considered soft in temperment and the Germelhaus dogs were not among them.

Spook101, you are forgiven by me, I personally hope that you and your dog have much success in the future.