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by Eldee on 04 December 2012 - 03:12
Why do they make them pose like that. I don't understand the point??
by Xeph on 04 December 2012 - 04:12
Nobody really knows. They've been doing it since the early 1900s though
by hexe on 04 December 2012 - 05:12
Xeph, I had a reallly nice post all finished, hit the 'submit' button, and it disappeared... boo.
Anyway....I liked her when you posted her first picture right before she left to go back to the breeder's for a spell, and I like her just as well now....but the first new picture you posted did not do her justice. The latest ones you put up today, THAT'S what I expected her to look like at this stage, and Ibrahim's critique is spot-on. If you told me she was an American/WG show lines cross, I'd take your word for it, and I'll take her topline over the roached-back one seen in far too many of the European showlines in recent years, for one thing! As she matures and you continue to do conditioning with her, her forequarters will become better developed and she'll be more balanced in appearance, front to rear. Looking at the photos of the three females, you can see there is a definite improvement in the length of thigh, even though the hocks are still about the same length. I don't find them to be overly long, really, I think you're just used to seeing a longer thigh on your other dogs and that makes their hocks look more proportionate. Also like that she has more substance to her head and muzzle than girl #1 and girl #3, yet loses no femininity in the process. Length of loin would be no complaint for me, either--in a female, I prefer a bit longish over too short-coupled; I want to see plenty of room for puppies without them being shoved up against the abdominal organs if the bitch is carrying a large litter, frankly. And I stll love her feet...nice, tight, well-arched paws are a joy to see, IMO.
She's a looker, and should have no trouble finishing. Look forward to seeing her as she goes through the rest of the maturing process; this is a really, really nice bitch.
Anyway....I liked her when you posted her first picture right before she left to go back to the breeder's for a spell, and I like her just as well now....but the first new picture you posted did not do her justice. The latest ones you put up today, THAT'S what I expected her to look like at this stage, and Ibrahim's critique is spot-on. If you told me she was an American/WG show lines cross, I'd take your word for it, and I'll take her topline over the roached-back one seen in far too many of the European showlines in recent years, for one thing! As she matures and you continue to do conditioning with her, her forequarters will become better developed and she'll be more balanced in appearance, front to rear. Looking at the photos of the three females, you can see there is a definite improvement in the length of thigh, even though the hocks are still about the same length. I don't find them to be overly long, really, I think you're just used to seeing a longer thigh on your other dogs and that makes their hocks look more proportionate. Also like that she has more substance to her head and muzzle than girl #1 and girl #3, yet loses no femininity in the process. Length of loin would be no complaint for me, either--in a female, I prefer a bit longish over too short-coupled; I want to see plenty of room for puppies without them being shoved up against the abdominal organs if the bitch is carrying a large litter, frankly. And I stll love her feet...nice, tight, well-arched paws are a joy to see, IMO.
She's a looker, and should have no trouble finishing. Look forward to seeing her as she goes through the rest of the maturing process; this is a really, really nice bitch.
by Xeph on 04 December 2012 - 08:12
hexe, that was a lot of remarkable comments! Really appreciated! Her breeder will be happy to hear them!
All three girls posted are related :) Two of the girls are even related to my half German dog ;) The breeder and I plan on exhibiting this bitch at the national next year!
As far as heads go, Wesson has my favorite head of the bunch right now, with Vixie (the first puppy) a close second. I think you'll like Vixie's head more when she gets older. While I would like more stop, she does have a strong underjaw. and I expect to see some beautiful fill through the cheek as she matures.
You may be right about me being used to longer upper thighs. I can't say the rear on this bitch displeases me, and she's clean as a whistle going away :) She has beautifully tight ligaments too. I will be begging my husband to help me get video tomorrow!!
Wesson and Vixie share some traits that are too often lacking in our American dogs. Namely tight feet and strong pasterns. It is not as hard as many think to find a nice dry dog, but it is very difficult to find correct pasterns.
The last bitch I love for her body and substance (and EXCELLENT drive and work ethic!!). Though she is not the tallest of the bunch (Vixie is as big as she is at 7 months, and Wesson is taller than her at 14 months), she has BEAUTIFUL spring of rib, excellent chest development, and a nice thick neck.
All three girls have unwavering toplines in motion.
Can I just say how nice it is to have a calm discussion on structure and presentation, even though my AmLines may not be everybody's cup of tea? Seriously, it's really enjoyable. Two years ago, I never would have posted any of these dogs like this. Now, I find this to be an enjoyable endeavor, and I am able to continue to look at my dogs objectively, and hear thoughtful well formed opinions from others, good and bad.
All three girls posted are related :) Two of the girls are even related to my half German dog ;) The breeder and I plan on exhibiting this bitch at the national next year!
As far as heads go, Wesson has my favorite head of the bunch right now, with Vixie (the first puppy) a close second. I think you'll like Vixie's head more when she gets older. While I would like more stop, she does have a strong underjaw. and I expect to see some beautiful fill through the cheek as she matures.
You may be right about me being used to longer upper thighs. I can't say the rear on this bitch displeases me, and she's clean as a whistle going away :) She has beautifully tight ligaments too. I will be begging my husband to help me get video tomorrow!!
Wesson and Vixie share some traits that are too often lacking in our American dogs. Namely tight feet and strong pasterns. It is not as hard as many think to find a nice dry dog, but it is very difficult to find correct pasterns.
The last bitch I love for her body and substance (and EXCELLENT drive and work ethic!!). Though she is not the tallest of the bunch (Vixie is as big as she is at 7 months, and Wesson is taller than her at 14 months), she has BEAUTIFUL spring of rib, excellent chest development, and a nice thick neck.
All three girls have unwavering toplines in motion.
Can I just say how nice it is to have a calm discussion on structure and presentation, even though my AmLines may not be everybody's cup of tea? Seriously, it's really enjoyable. Two years ago, I never would have posted any of these dogs like this. Now, I find this to be an enjoyable endeavor, and I am able to continue to look at my dogs objectively, and hear thoughtful well formed opinions from others, good and bad.
by Ibrahim on 04 December 2012 - 18:12
Can I just say how nice it is to have a calm discussion on structure and presentation, even though my AmLines may not be everybody's cup of tea?
Xeph,
I share same feeling with you but I want you to know that in your posts you play a big role in maintaining a civil and fruitful discussion, maybe because you are understanding and respectful to the good and not so good opinions expressed about your dogs, maybe it's because you're not actually looking for compliments only, maybe because you are not propaganding your own dogs, and maybe it's all of the above. You also have a smooth way of managing the flow of discussion in your threads
, just a thought
Xeph,
I share same feeling with you but I want you to know that in your posts you play a big role in maintaining a civil and fruitful discussion, maybe because you are understanding and respectful to the good and not so good opinions expressed about your dogs, maybe it's because you're not actually looking for compliments only, maybe because you are not propaganding your own dogs, and maybe it's all of the above. You also have a smooth way of managing the flow of discussion in your threads
, just a thoughtby Xeph on 04 December 2012 - 19:12
Thank you, Ibrahim :) I appreciate that
by Xeph on 08 December 2012 - 03:12
Cannot get good movement video of this girl for the life of me presently. Still working on it.
For the record, if she passes all her health tests, she'll likely be bred late (LATE) next year. I want to go to a Euro show line for her, but thus far only have one stud dog in mind.
She will be titled before being bred. Hoping to have her CDX, but we'll see. Wish there were places to herd closer to home.
For the record, if she passes all her health tests, she'll likely be bred late (LATE) next year. I want to go to a Euro show line for her, but thus far only have one stud dog in mind.
She will be titled before being bred. Hoping to have her CDX, but we'll see. Wish there were places to herd closer to home.
by Xeph on 10 December 2012 - 05:12
This is the best movement still I've been able to get thus far.
Trying for more tomorrow
Here is how she was moving about 6 months ago
And a new stack from tonight
Trying for more tomorrow
Here is how she was moving about 6 months ago
And a new stack from tonight
by Ibrahim on 10 December 2012 - 19:12
Xeph, those pictures make me wonder, American show line does not have a shoulder angle as good as that of West German showline but how come American showline shows very good shoulder open and very good front reach !!!
That dog maintains a straight topline and good height of withers while trotting
That dog maintains a straight topline and good height of withers while trotting
by Xeph on 10 December 2012 - 20:12
but how come American showline shows very good shoulder open and very good front reach !!!
Ibrahim, this is a very good question. I am often told that Americans have "steep" fronts, but I have to admit, I don't entirely understand this. I really struggle with seeing fronts unless the dog is in motion. I would love to hear somebody explain/create some diagrams.
Many American dogs have great reach in part because of loose ligaments, however, this particular bitch is very very dry.
Looking at many Euro show lines, I can't stand the fronts. Many move from the elbow and don't open at the shoulder at all, and there seems to be this awkward angulation visible through the elbow (the front is "bent"). Placement of upper arm perhaps?
Ibrahim, this is a very good question. I am often told that Americans have "steep" fronts, but I have to admit, I don't entirely understand this. I really struggle with seeing fronts unless the dog is in motion. I would love to hear somebody explain/create some diagrams.
Many American dogs have great reach in part because of loose ligaments, however, this particular bitch is very very dry.
Looking at many Euro show lines, I can't stand the fronts. Many move from the elbow and don't open at the shoulder at all, and there seems to be this awkward angulation visible through the elbow (the front is "bent"). Placement of upper arm perhaps?
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