Say Some Prayers for Jewel... - Page 4

Keep up posted on the ole girl!  More prayers coming your and her way!

If there's a reason to believe that there's swelling of the brain, then yes, steroids are generally not the favored approach these days. With vestibular incidents, however, the problem typically isn't swelling affecting the brain, it's some degree of inflammation of the inner-ear that is causing the trouble, and in such instances steroids can be quite helpful.  I can only guess at the treating vet's thought process, but I'd be inclined to think he's responding to your Mom's anxiousness of how slowly Jewel is rebounding, and is looking for the addition of a steroid to accelerate the resolution of whatever is at the root of the inner-ear disturbance.  I'm further guessing that, without having seen Jewel at the time he made the comment, he's expecting her hindquarter mobility to be virtually non-existent, and if the steroid doesn't trigger any improvement he's thinking this is not a vestibular incident but rather a something much bigger such as a lesion on the brain or spinal cord...but the nystagmus is tell-tale for the vestibular disturbance, and if this were my parents' dog I'd be reassuring them that they're being somewhat impatient, given her age, and explain that it is not uncommon for dogs over 10 years of age to need a longer period of time for the vestibular network to right itself again.  If Jewel wasn't drinking or eating at all, and/or wasn't even just making any attempts to move and stand on her own, I'd be worried, but so far she's improving faster than many 12 yr olds I've watched go through this experience. 

Additionally, we also don't know how experienced this particular vet is with vestibular incidents--this could be one of his first senior-plus patients, or even his first case *ever* [every vet has a first case, even if they had prior exposure to the condition in one of their own pets--it's different when it a client's dog that you can't watch over 24/7].  I'm still inclined to feel Jewel is doing quite well based on the info we have at the moment.

I agree, Jen,  baby steps... her eyes are also back to normal, save for when they go to move her... so here I was thinking she was doing pretty well as far as recovering, for being 13.5 yrs old. But hey, what do I know?

I heard back from her. They went to the vet and got the shot. Apparently the next 24 hrs will tell. Honestly though, I think this is all due to her ear infections. She's had them for awhile now, but it's always "too much of a battle" for mom and them to clean them out on a regular basis. I do them when I go over there, but I obviously can't be there enough for that to make a difference. My dads dog gets them occasionally, and it takes cleaning them about twice a day to make 'em go away. Anyway, the vet flushed them the first time we were in there, and said that he could see all the way to the ear drum in both ears, but the one was all full of crap again tonight apparently (hmm shocker). How would the steroid effect an ear infection? Would it help if it were on the other side of the ear drum? I don't think the vet is all that concerned about them.

Hexe I am glad you are on this forum. You know what I know, as far as what's going on with her (aside from being able to physically see her, I suppose), so I trust what you have to say, at this point more than that vet. From the way he was talking the other day he's seen a lot of dogs with vestibular issues. He was even saying that it takes a week or two to get better, which pretty much adds up with everything I've read/been told since then. That is why I'm so confused at this point when she IS improving (slowly but surely), that now "that's not right". This vet was recommended to me by a gal I train with (who also works there I guess), so I assumed that he would be a good one. I liked him at first, but after this, I'm beginning to have my doubts (granted I don't have much faith in the vets around here any more anyway). I am wondering exactly what my mom has been saying to him, and if that does have something to do with all this nonsense.

We'll see I guess.

While I too have little faith in vets, I have great faith in God...
So,In God We Trust Jewels Recovery.
My Prayers are with you.

Gunky ears are a pretty common Waterloo for a lot of pet owners--I do understand what your Mom refers to about it being 'too much of a battle', because while Jewel may be fairly cooperative about it for you, it would not surprise me at all to find out that she actively fights your Mom.  Ear-cleaning can become such an issue for dogs and owners that it can lead to aggressive reactions from the dogs when someone just reaches towards the dog's ears.  And yes, dogs with a history of ear infections are at increased risk of vestibular episodes, but the condition isn't called 'Old Dog Vestibular Syndrome' for nothing--age plays a significant role in the event, too.

I highly recommend a product called Zymox Otic which comes in  a formulation with hydrocortisone [in two strengths, 0.5% and 1.0%], as well as a formula without the steroid; treatment requires nothing more than the application of the product once daily in the ear canals, massaging it in and gently wiping any excess product that gets on the outer portion of the ears--and it's gentle on already-irritated or broken tissue, causing no stinging, burning, or other pain to the dog's ears. It's not an especially inexpensive product, but I would rank it as one of the most game-changineg products to come to market for the care and treatment of ear infections in dogs due to both it's efficacy and the degree to which it's readily accepted by the animals--even those which had previously been combative about having their ears treated because of previous experience with other products in the past. 

Warning:  it is necessary to confirm that there has been no perforation of the eardrum before using the version containing hydrocortisone; use of the hydrocortisone formula in the presence of eardrum perforation can result in permanent damage and hearing loss. Have veterinarian exam dog's ears to confirm the membranes are intact before applying this version of the product.

A"plus" version of the corticosteroid formula is also available, which has an added compound that addresses the bio-film certain infectious agents create to resist the effects of other ear-clearing treatments. The formulation without the hydrocortisone is meant for use for dogs that need excess wax or dirt cleaned out of their ears, but which are not experiencing itching, inflammation or infection.

The steroid injection will be effective in reducing the inflammation regardless of which side of the tympanic membrane, but has no effect on any organisms that would cause infection.  For that, antimicrobials of some type or another are needed.  But not all ear gunk is infectious; in dogs with inhalent allergies, the crud that builds up in the ears is from a combination of the inflammatory process which accelerates the production of sebum by the inner-ear tissue, and the general debris of sloughing skin cells and such that get caught up in the increased exudate.

I think the injection Jewel got tonight will prove helpful in hastening the reduction of the inflammatory process causes interference with her vestibular system, which should make your Mom less anxious and thus make things less stressful for Jewel.

You said your mom was bawling, overreacting, etc. She may be hounding him on the phone, unintentionally. He may have been sorry he called.   Maybe she's afraid to tell you that she can't just be patient and wants to feel like she's DOING something. Never met the lady...just guessing based on what I've seen happen in times of crisis in families. 

PS:  I did find the prednisone helpful with increasing the appetite, water intake, AND helps to bring down swelling.  So maybe that is what the vet is hoping it will do.  Hope it helps and not hinders.....  Nan

Well no improvement. :\ Though she is managing to scootch around a bit more, and stood up again once, but went back down. She is still wetting herself. And I guess her eyes are a cuckoo yet.

She didn't talk to the vet today, and said that Jewel was in the same spot she left her in when she got home from work.

That could very well be Jen. The woman is not known for keeping her cool about much of anything, which is why she had me in panic mode when I originally texted you - plus she woke me up.

Jewel is 13.5 years old. It's been 2.5 or 3 days. I see no reason to lose hope yet. She's "managing to scootch around a bit more" sounds like a good sign, to me. Standing up is good, even if she's not strong enough yet to stay standing. Doesn't sound like Jewel's given up, and neither will we!

Exactly, Jen! And I've been trying to tell them that. It also doesn't help that she didn't have a ton of muscle tone going into this which I've been trying to tell them without being too harsh, which I'm no good at.  

The problem will be if the vet comes out and says "there's nothing we can do for her". I can tell them pretty much anything, but knowing them they will always take the vets word. Why do you think she was on Science Diet her whole life?

Also, does cancer show up on an x-ray? I know a tumor or other mass will, but can you look at an x-ray alone and say 'whups, cancer' without doing a biopsy or something? I ask because now they are claiming she's had cancer for the past year too, that the vet saw it when they did the x-ray, and, mind you, mis-diagnosed her pyo for something else. And I'm just finding out about that one.

Why do we not have that smacking-face-on-a-brick-wall emoticon on this site?