FCI standard vs the AKC standard - Page 1

FCI:

Hindquarters

The position of hind legs is slightly backwards, whereby the hind limbs are parallel to each other when seen from the rear. Upper leg and lower leg are of approximately the same length and form an angle of approx. 120°; the legs are strong and well-muscled. 

The hocks are strongly developed and firm; the hind pastern stands vertically under the hock.

The paws are closed, slightly arched; the pads are hard and of dark colour; the nails are strong, arched and also of dark colour.

Gait

The German Shepherd Dog is a trotter. The limbs must be coordinated in length and angulations so that the dog can shift the hindquarters towards the trunk without any essential change of the top line and can reach just as far with the forelimbs. Any tendency towards over-angulation of the hindquarters reduces the stability and the stamina, and thereby the working ability. Correct body proportions and angulations results in a gait that is far-reaching and flat over the ground which conveys the impression of effortless forward movements. The head pushed forward and the slightly raised tail result in a consistent, smooth trot showing a gently curved, uninterrupted upper line from the ear tips over the neck and back to the end of the tail.

AKC

Gait
A German Shepherd Dog is a trotting dog, and its structure has been developed to meet the requirements of its work. General Impression-- The gait is outreaching, elastic, seemingly without effort, smooth and rhythmic, covering the maximum amount of ground with the minimum number of steps. At a walk it covers a great deal of ground, with long stride of both hind legs and forelegs. At a trot the dog covers still more ground with even longer stride, and moves powerfully but easily, with coordination and balance so that the gait appears to be the steady motion of a well-lubricated machine. The feet travel close to the ground on both forward reach and backward push. In order to achieve ideal movement of this kind, there must be good muscular development and ligamentation. The hindquarters deliver, through the back, a powerful forward thrust which slightly lifts the whole animal and drives the body forward. Reaching far under, and passing the imprint left by the front foot, the hind foot takes hold of the ground; then hock, stifle and upper thigh come into play and sweep back, the stroke of the hind leg finishing with the foot still close to the ground in a smooth follow-through. The overreach of the hindquarter usually necessitates one hind foot passing outside and the other hind foot passing inside the track of the forefeet, and such action is not faulty unless the locomotion is crabwise with the dogs body sideways out of the normal straight line.

Transmission The typical smooth, flowing gait is maintained with great strength and firmness of back. The whole effort of the hindquarter is transmitted to the forequarter through the loin, back and withers. At full trot, the back must remain firm and level without sway, roll, whip or roach. Unlevel topline with withers lower than the hip is a fault. To compensate for the forward motion imparted by the hindquarters, the shoulder should open to its full extent. The forelegs should reach out close to the ground in a long stride in harmony with that of the hindquarters. The dog does not track on widely separated parallel lines, but brings the feet inward toward the middle line of the body when trotting, in order to maintain balance. The feet track closely but do not strike or cross over. Viewed from the front, the front legs function from the shoulder joint to the pad in a straight line. Viewed from the rear, the hind legs function from the hip joint to the pad in a straight line. Faults of gait, whether from front, rear or side, are to be considered very serious faults.

 Run with it, bzcz, show us the difference.

BTW, bzcz, acutually the AKC standard is far more detailed and descriptive than the FCI one. Why do you think the FCI standard is better and that the GSDCA should be admonished for not preferring it over the AKC one? Please don't say because it describes MY type of dog, be specific.

words on paper, dogs in front of you. Hmmmmmmmmmm.  

zdog, you just nailed it.

Zdog, everyone here knows you don't like showlines, so please don't interrupt yet another discussion on them with your snide remarks. This board isn't only for workingline discussions. You have you own forums to talk about your dogs and I  have never seen a showline person participating in any of those discussions in order to belittle workinglines or their breeder/owners.

Have anything positive to contribute today, Kim? Which standard do you prefer and why?

As far as the standards, they are not that different other than interpretation by the different organizations (or people wanting to advance their own agenda) and the faults that each choose to ignore in applying it.

In AKC/GSDCA, a dog can have weak sloppy rear, poor back and washed out color, missing teeth and no health certs and still make it to the top of the pile. Also character does not carry a lot of weight.

In SV, you can see hocks turned in, top dogs running "down hill" and of course the roach. But they do have the h/e requirements, dentition is noted and available in breed survey and regardless of how one views the protection phase, it is there for the public to see and judge for themselves.

No one is forced to accept what either org. puts forth and there are knowledgeable breeders who require more than what GSDCA or SV presents as cream of the crop.

Personally, I am not impressed at all with the dog GSDCA has produced (after 100 years or so of trying). And thats not meant as a slight to those who have dogs that meet their needs, just the body of work that is GSDCA.

How would it benefit the breed to use the FCI standard rather than the AKC one? That seems to be the main objection and reason some think/hope the GSDCA is destined to fail because it refuses to switch to the FCI guidelines. Neither mention testing the dogs working ability, do they? Titling in protection or HGH isn't addressed in the FCI standard, is it? Essentially both standards address conformation in basically the same way IMO. If one would hire a non-GSD artist to generate 2 drawings each based on the dogs as described in each standard, I'm wondering if the end results would be much different?

well i'm sorry that you and everybody else thinks that way, but if you really knew how I felt you'd know I don't really give two craps where a dog comes from.  I care what the dog is.  One of my favorite dogs ever was a showline, Indo v Geesthugel.  I will work any dog with a handler willing to be honest with what they have and wanting to put in the work.  I've seen plenty of showline dogs that are just fine.  Not my personal cup of tea usually, but that's a different topic. 

anyway, back to the topic at hand.  if the standards are so similar, why are the dogs so different? and I would contest that the number of workable showline dogs bred to the world standard would be grossly disproportionate to the number of workable dogs bred to the AKC standard.  THey don't look like the same dogs, they don't act like the same dogs.  there are exceptions, but that hardly changes the overal reality.

Again, words on paper or the dogs in front of you?  I know which is more important to me.

How are the standard different, Zdog?