GSD (Is there such a thing as too much Drive ?) - Page 7

SS doesn't matter the breed.  Drive isnt the privy of only the GSD. 

Here in wisconsin, they run bear hounds and I've seen those dogs go all day.  Drive to work and complete the task is what motivates them.

I wouldn't assume that the handler who is handling a pack of dogs doesn't know what he is doing.  He was called out by the authorities to hunt down a cougar who isn't afraid of people.  I would put money on the fact that he knows what he is doing.

Like the excuse making for the dogs though as you avoid all the points previously made.  That's why you'll never learn.  You avoid that which you don't want to hear.
 

I know nothing about the cat tracking teams, so i can not use this story for any reason in this chat. For myself, I have seen driven dogs ''crap out'' due to fatique and i have seen low drive dogs fail far too often. Balance of drive and training is key. 

bzcz; there is a point of ''no return'' for anybody. fatique will catch up with everybody soon or later. If you do not believe, start doing push ups now, and we can chat after i train my dogs. lol

GSD yes there is, but if I get to do push ups on a  rotating basis with others, I can go for a long time.  ANd again,  these dogs are TRAINED to do this.  They didn't go grab a pack of dogs and say lets go chase the big kitty today. 

I've seen plenty of fatigued dogs who would still work through their fatigue.  The dogs who quit when they get fatigued are the low drive dogs.  Those would be the "sooner" dogs that you mention. 

Like the excuse making for the dogs though as you avoid all the points previously made.  That's why you'll never learn.  You avoid that which you don't want to hear.
  

Whatever. You are just as determined to ignore the point Gustav is trying to make. These over-the-top screamer dogs are something new, and IMO (and, I think it's fairly obvious, in his, too) they are NOT an asset to the breed.

No, I am not in favour of 'pussifying' the GSD breed to the point where it can no longer work. The showline people are doing a good enough job of that without my help by breeding big, ponderous dogs with huge heads and short snouts that can impair their breathing. What I am NOT in favour of is any sort of extreme. And that includes extreme drive. What I've seen (and others have noted, too) is it creates dogs that are more difficult to train and less reliable because they have trouble capping that drive. The urge to bite/run the blinds, whatever takes precedence over what their trainer is telling them to do. Sure, it's partly a training issue as well, but the dog would be much easier to train if it could control its drive.

But hey, if a little bit of drive/angulation/coat is good, MORE must be better, right? 

I've seen far too  many breeds ruined by that philosophy!
  

Too funny.  Still ignoring the fables and the false comments that you yourself made earlier. High prey dogs chasing children. 

Funny thing is I was visiting another club this weekend talking to a top trainer who also does breeding.  He was commenting on how there are so many nice dogs out there compared to what there were 20 years ago.  His words not mine.

Over the top screamers being new.  Too funny.  There was a dog at a National Championship back in 1999 that barked his fool head off anytime his handler did anything with the dumbbells in the trial.  It the dumbbell wasn't in the dogs mouth, he was barking.  Was sitting with Dean Calderon during that and listening to the commentary (which was a lot of fun!) 

If they are too hard for you to train, then don't get one. 

What's your frame of reference for your comments that they are new to the breed?

This quote from Gustav:  I handled and trained single purpose detection dog in the seventies in military. We didn't have over the top screamer dogs at that time.

Have to leave this for now and get some work done.

SS

Except your comments were before his was made.  Trying to use a later post to justify an earlier comment.

The 70's I can't attest to, I wasn't involved back then.  The people I talked to about the state of the working GSDs in the 60's and 70's was that there were alot more crap dogs.  You had to go through a lot of dogs to find a good one is what I'm told. 

Regardless, you are at least 20 years late to the party (seeing as how the dumbbell barking dog was 5 years old, 15 years ago), and to you this is a "new" development in the breed. 

I wasn't involved in the '70s either, so I have to take Gustav's word for it. Whatever...carry on!

We have a screamer in our club. She used to scream every time she came out for protection. Took a lot of effort, but her handler has broken her of this annoying habit.  Next step: break her of sneaking dirty bites during the bark and hold, and while escorting the helper...

Does it say in the breed standard anywhere it's okay for a dog to scream? 

The German Shepherd Dog must be even tempered, well balanced (with strong nerves), self assured, totally at ease (except when provoked) and good natured, as well as attentive and easy to train.  He must possess courage, combativity and toughness in order to be suitable as a companion, guard, service, Herding-dog and  Schutzhund dog.

Does the breed standard say they have to bark? And again you comment on annoying habit.  It's annoying for you.  Doesn't make it a fault.  Don't know the dog so I can't say but other dogs do it and it's not a problem to balance.  Don't take your one dog example and extrapolate it to a breed problem. 

Where did you get your paragraph from?  Below is the Breed Standard for the GSD. Nothing said about even tempered, or easy to train, guard etc etc etc.

The German Shepherd Dog must be well-balanced (with strong nerves) in terms of character, self-assured, absolutely natural and (except for a stimulated situation) good-natured as well as attentive and willing to please. He must possess instinctive behaviour, resilience and self-assurance in order to be suitable as a companion, guard, protection, service and herding dog.

You never have answered me about the fabled on off switch and the high prey dogs chasing children comments that you made.