Training pup to remain in "down: position - Page 3

Winifred Strickland

Winifred Strickland began competing in obedience in the early 1940s. She retired from competition in 1955, just about the time that Blanche Saunders and Milo Pearsall were influencing trainers with their seminars. Strickland, an AKC obedience judge, was one of the earliest “super trainers.” She earned 160 obedience titles, 40 perfect scores, 30 utility titles, three obedience trial championships, five national obedience championships, five tracking titles, plus hundreds of high awards.

In her 1965 book Expert Obedience Training for Dogs, Strickland outlined a sequenced curriculum for novice through utility training. She said that her method would produced dogs that were eager to work.

Strickland used snap-release corrections to teach heeling and to “teach the dog to behave.” If dogs refused commands, she would give them a sharp tap on the nose. For dogs who jumped on people, she used the commonly used procedure of a knee in the dog’s chest. In housebreaking dogs, she used verbal reprimands for when the dog had an accident, and she praised the dog when it was eliminating outside. When Strickland had to correct the dog, she believed that punishment should always be administered immediately and the lesson continued so the dog could do something right and get praised. Strickland emphasized the importance of good timing when delivering both punishment and praise.

To teach “down,” Strickland used physical prompts. She pulled the dog’s front legs out as she dropped it into a down position and said, “down, good down.” To drop the dog into a down at a distance, Strickland systematically faded her control of the dog by starting the training with the dog a short distance away and gradually increasing the distance.

Strickland taught her young dogs to do tricks using food as an incentive. She described how she would pair food with praise and eventually the dogs worked for praise alone (conditioned reinforcement). Like most of the other trainers of her times, Strickland advised against using food in training. She said that the use of food “is a crude approach to training and will work only with dogs that think more of their own stomachs than of their owners.” Despite this comment, in Expert Obedience Training for Dogs, Strickland described how food could be used to teach advanced skills such as the “go-out” exercise for obedience. This exercise involves the dog being sent away from the handler, instructed to sit, and then jump over a specified jump. Strickland would place small bits of food at the location to which the dog was directed. The dog would run out to get the food and Strickland would give a verbal signal to have the dog sit. Eventually, the food would be faded from the training and the dog would run out to the location when given a verbal command.

In the 1960’s, a number of leading trainers believed that dogs trained for formal obedience competition should live in kennels. The thinking was that the dogs would be so happy to have human contact they would work eagerly. Strickland disagreed with kenneling dogs. She felt that dogs should live in the home “as family members.” She cited numerous examples of how her German Shepherds practiced their training throughout the day by retrieving items and performing other functional tasks.

Praise was an “integral part” of Strickland’s training method and she advised trainers to “continually strive to instill a feeling of fun in your training to keep your dog enthusiastic.” Winifred Strickland was responsible for a dramatic advance in the movement toward the kinder, more humane training of dogs. Strickland’s comment, “Do not be embarrassed if someone overhears you praising your dog. Be proud of it,” shows us just how far dog training has come in the last 30 years. 

http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/article/the-evolution-of-modern-day-dog-training

 

OMG lookie there.  She uses food against what even she said.

Talk is cheap, what do you do is what matters.  And she advocated using food for training obedience exercises.

What a waste of time to reinforce what the rest of us already know.  Oh wait, we should all train like they did 50 frickin' years ago!

Yeah, good plan that. 

And I was under the impression that was what I said worked for me.

No, you were giving that sad outdated advice to someone else.  That's what started this debate.

 

@blitzen: i can't believe your selective and self-serving references. the very article you're quoting from is a set of portraits about the evolution of dog training and there are plenty of people "after" strickland in the section of "modern influences", which, according to the article's classification, she's not contributed to.  moreover, i quoted from her 2003 edition ... seems the author evolved as well.

while i still believe applying circa 1960's  OB compeition training advice to today's puppy training is pretty poor strategy, the summary paragraph of the article you quoted is worth reprinting not only for the benefit of the OP but in general because it's quite good. from: http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/article/the-evolution-of-modern-day-dog-training

Understanding the whole dog

In the years before operant conditioning was a term familiar to dog trainers, well-known trainers introduced new training methods or modifications of old ones with a steady regularity. However, despite a consistently growing number of books and seminars on “how to train,” leading trainers have understood for decades that more is required to train a dog than a set of procedures or bag of tricks.

The field of dog training has changed dramatically in recent years and the overall trend has been toward an increased use of positive reinforcement. While strategies have changed, some of the characteristics of good trainers have remained constant. Good trainers understand the whole dog. Although we can make some generalizations about learning theory and what happens when an animal is reinforced or punished, we cannot deny the role that genetics and breed or species differences play when we are trying to change an animal’s behavior.

Whatever, Bebo. Have a nice evening.

Apologies to skibike for the way this thread has gone off track. Best of luck with your puppy training.

No worries, I realize everyone has their own methods.

However, Sunsilvers advice already seems to be working for me. I think the combination of pausing after the command, before rewarding, as well as to keep him in that position by some additional rewards whilst in that position (muscle memory) seems to be helping. He was not jumping up to the sitting position right after rewarding him anymore.

Thanks all. 

 

First things first, too young yo expect a long down, but I understand that it should increase to a length. You're marking and rewarding the positive behavior. This is where you introduce the opposite side of the coin. Negative markers. He gets up out of the down and you use your negative correction command and he doesn't get the reward. He will soon learn threat he only gets the reward doing what is asked.

You have to keep in mind that this is a 16-20.3 week old puppy. They are full of food drive and should break the down to drive towards the food. That's why I wouldn't worry about a long down now. I'd worry more about recalls, fast sits, downs, etc. With time you will have a mediocre dog. Be patient!

That's outstanding, skibike. If I get another GSD puppy, I may try that too. Keep us posted on how he does.