Training pup to remain in "down: position - Page 9

....but I still tried to avoid using force...

The key word there is 'tried'. I had an 84 lb. GSD that would pull against his flat collar (when on a tieout) to the point where his neck was abraded. So, the prong was necessary. Within a month or two, he graduated to a flat collar.

But go ahead, keep picking holes, if it amuses you...

My other dogs have all been trained without a prong, except for a very high energy rescue, who is dog-aggressive, and was also likely kept on a tieout, so learned to pull.

Different tools in my toolbox, too...

What's the point, you don't get it and probably never will.

I learned long ago not to waste effort on those who can't/won't

SS, You said " BTW, using an e-collar or a pinch for tracking is using compulsion. I have yet to find a dog that required compulsion to force it to track. If it had that little desire to do something that comes so naturally to most dogs, I'd find myself another dog, rather than using force!"

First off I would like to say that I have not read the response after your yet, so if may have already been commeneted on. I believe that BZCZ was using the prong or e-collar to SLOW THE DOGS DOWN on the track not to train tracking with complusion. At least that is my understanding of what he was saying.

I am not taking "sides" in this debate, just saying how I preceived things when I read it.

Thanks for that insight, Jyl. I've mostly seen these tools used to correct the dog if it dares to raise its head from the track.

My background is in CKC tracking, so I just don't agree with the use of compulsion in tracking. My whole philosophy of tracking is 'The dog is the one with the nose. Let him do his thing!"*  (WIthin reason, of course...if he's waaay waaay off track, you lead him back, and show him where the track is.)  I believe compulsion and harsh corrections are more than likely to sour the dog on tracking completely. I've seen dogs do a track slinking along with their tail between their legs, due to too much compulsion!

(*Probably the stupidest thing I've ever done was correct my dog in the middle of a tracking test, when I thought she'd taken a corner too soon! )