Did any Working Line dogs compete? - Page 1

Out of curiousity, did any working line dogs compete in the Sieger shows? Did any achieve a V rating?

I was looking at some showline studs and they have a lot of points I like but I can't get pass their weird, wobbly hind legs. I'm very sorry to offend. I just find it disgusting and ...just odd. I just cringe watching them move. And trust me, I have tried like hell to like showlines..gorgeous heads, color, coats, movement.

So, any WL dogs compete in any of the Sieger shows and do well? If not, why don't working line dogs ever compete in Sieger shows? Seems to me...all german shpeherds should be competing together.  Is there a happy medium? Looks and working ability?

Thanks,

Sarah

Also, out of curiousity, did any ASL dogs compete in the GSDCA Sieger show or other Sieger shows?

Are Sieger shows only for Gerrman showlines? I went to the 2013 NASS (was a volunteer). I didn't see any working line dogs there but didn't know if that was unusual. As a side note, I was shocked by 2014 NASS results. I took candids of  some dogs that went VA this year and was shocked. Not VA dogs.

I did join WDA originally...but left for many reasons. The yearly WDA meeting I attended was one of them. Yikes.

I joined USCA but have not been to any other Sieger show and don't know if there are the same dogs there.

For disclosure, I have a East German working line that I did IPO club work with, UKC showing, and AKC performance.

I want to breed her and compete in SV style conformation shows as well as IPO work and AKC performance. But, I am not seeing any working line dogs competing in Sieger shows. WHY? Please someone with history and knowledge help me understand......

Where are all the working line dogs at Sieger shows?

There are workinglines on the siegershow, not that many, but there are...

Over here the numbers slightly increased due to the change of bitework rating ( 0/0 - 5/5 ), but they still are a minority.
WHY?

• People don´t like to be at the end of a ring, and the workinglines mostly are... The Siegershow is a SHOW, no trial, nothing to win in this event ( in my personal opinion that´s wrong, a V rating on the Siegershow is a high rating, be it V1 or V80 ).
• Some "famous" workinglines who participated didn´t bite better than the ridiculed showlines = very embarrassing for their owners - the worst case for them.
• A lot of the workingline owners simply are not interested in ring "training".

Almost no workinglines in the youth and young dog classes over here,

• no bitework involved
• most of them simply need longer to develop structurally

Hope this answers some of your questions.
Kind regards
 

Smiley, one point to consider: it's been my observation that when it comes to the Sieger shows, especially THE Siegerschau in Germany [the BSZS], the majority of the dogs with the conformation I prefer aren't going to be in the VA's, or even the high V's--they'll be further down in the V rated dogs and the SG's. 

But there's no reason you shouldn't be able to find a well-built working line dog with a beautiful head along with everything else a good GSD should have.

Susie,

Thank you for your response. Where are you? Germany?

Hmmm. I just don't understand why a breeder wouldn't want to do conformation and working events simulatneously. I know that I showed my bitch in conformation and worked her on IPO field. It just made sense to me.

I wonder if any working line dogs show at the US Sieger shows.

Wouldn't you want to have the true german shepherd in conformation and working ability. Seems to me all german shepherds should be competing under one umbrella.

Maybe there are some working line dogs that actually competed this year at any of the 3 Sieger shows. Would be interesting to note!!!

Do showlines compete in IPO Championship events? I have only been to training fields and local IPO events but never an IPO Championship.

Hexe,

Are there any in the US?  

I was truly curious if any WLs did indeed show at one of the Sieger shows. I am most interested in the show results from the USA Sieger show as that seems to be the most legit.

We had a workingline dog in the 2013 USCA Sieger Show, 18-24 month class.  To the best of my knowledge this was the only workingline dog entered in the entire event.  Finished dead last in our class. 

Why did we enter?  It was relatively close and we wanted a conformation rating for an eventual breed survey.

Reasons not to enter a Sieger Show with a workingline dog? 

No judge's critique unless you finish near the top of the class.

The dog loaded on the army of double handlers waving and running with every kind of prey implement.

Most of work line breeders do not care about conformation

Most of show line breeders do not care about work ability

That does not mean there are no work line breeders who care about conformation and show line breeders who care about work ability but they are not the majority. This is the reason for the split in umbrellas and this is the reason why GSD is two types. A breeder who knows his dog will not get high points in work trial will not enter, a breeder who knows his dog will not get a good show rating will not enter.

A few months ago a dog trainer from europe asked me about what sort of dog I was looking for, my answer was either a show that could work or a work that has good conformation. His reply showed he thought I was a fool !!!

Ibrahim 

Gunther,

Did you get the rating you wanted even though he finished last?

That's very disappointing to hear that he weas not critiqued. I mean....that was the sole reason I wanted to do SV conformation shows. Is this common for only the top of the class to get critiqued?

Lastly, for the life I me..I still don't get the double handling. I swear to Gosh I want to bash bats over the people screaming and hooting and running around the ring. What the hell? I have been to tons of dog shows and only in the GSD do I see this outrageous behavior. It annoys the crap out of me. I mean...the dogs can't even demonstrate true movement with all the yapping. They just pull on tight leashes which hides a lot.

But, your dog probably should have been able to ignore the the constant squeaking and bell ringing! More distraction training!! hehehe

Ibrahim.....I'm with you on viewpoint.

But, shouldn't all judges recognize functional, correct conformation and proper breed type? I mean...I could be wrong but that Bomber dog that was the subject of lots of earlier threads looks incredibly good to me. I think he is working line.

Granted, I love the color, motion, heads, and coats of showline dogs.But,  I don't like the latest craze for heavy dogs or bear type heads. I don't like their bizarre hind legs that look like frogs when they move. Everytime, I watch a showline move from behind it looks horrifying to me.

But, I have also been working my dog on IPO fields and see great working dogs that look like Mals....yuck. My WL coulod use better motion but people said she would definitely SG and maybe V on conformation. I have a feeling the poor motion might be common in WL dogs.

Maybe, perhaps, the crossing I am seeing a lot between worlds will help unify the standard. I am anxious to see the WL X SL crosses. Do they work to produce a happy medium?

Has nobody in the US shown their working line at a Sieger show? Has nobody in the US showed their showline at an IPO Championship? Really?