Justice for Geist .. website for dog killed in his own back yard by cops - Page 5

Editing this to make it easy.... All cops should have body cameras and not able to turn them off after exiting the vehicle (unless going to bathroom/paperwork)

then citizens will finally see how it really is and stop believing stories embellished by the media 

AND

Bad cops will be outed.

Also, perhaps I should have made the post about neighbors in a different topic since it was obviously misconstrued (whether intentionally or not) as being serious.

try living with a neighbor that lets their dog out every morning at 6am - 8;30 pm and it barks nonstop, rain or shine, weekend or weekday. 

Offer to pay for the dogs training, bark collar, Anytjjng and your neighbor just does not care at all.

you may make a sarcastic passive-aggressive post as well.

Wifey, I get where you're coming from, actually--I realize that every time your husband leaves the house, even if he's off-duty, you can't be sure he's going to be coming back home again alive and unharmed. And sure, in truth, while the same can be said for everyone's loved ones they leave the house, in these times of road-rage drivers who are armed, gang-related shootings of innocent and uninvolved people in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc., yes, your husband is at greater risk than the average person precisely due to his occupation.

That said, that does NOT give ANY member of law enforcement to use deadly force against my or anyone else's dog except in cases where the dog is truly going to cause the death of someone. Not 'COULD' cause the death of someone, not 'MIGHT' cause the death of someone--only WHEN someone is being seriously attacked to a level where that person's life hangs in the balance.

As a vet tech, I accept that I'm likely to be bitten, clawed, urinated or defecated upon, knocked over or tripped, stuck by an errant needle, get animal urine, blood or feces splashed on my body or in my eyes or mouth...it comes with the occupation. Your husband is not going to die from a dog bite anymore than I am. Should he have to subject himself to one? Well, yes, he sort of should expect that possibility by virtue of his choice of profession, just as he should expect he's going to get hit, bitten, spit upon, bled on, or have something thrown at him--because it comes with the job. That's why, in addition to a firearm, police officers in the US are also armed with police batons, subduing sprays, tasers, and other tools of the trade.

You chide us all that YOUR dogs are not permitted to be outside IN YOUR OWN FREAKIN' FENCED-IN YARD unattended, but then you modify that by saying, well, if the dogs are out in your yard, someone is AT LEAST 'looking out the window watching them'. Trust:  unless the plan is for you or your husband to DIVE right out the very window you're looking out of, the chances that you'll get your ass outside with the dogs in time to prevent them from being shot by the officer who killed this Weim' are slim and none...and I give you slim ONLY because the officer would MAYBE know that he was at a fellow cop's house and might hesitate to shoot on that account only. So get real on that one--you let your dogs out in your yard just like the rest of us with fenced-in yards, and it's your right to do so, as it is everyone else's right to do so.

I do agree that the number of good members of law enforcement outweigh the bad, and I also accept that all of them are human and subject to errors, to temptation, and most of all, to fear. I also agree that we hear more about the bad ones than we do the good, but must also acknowledge that too often a climate of elitism, greed and overall corruption blooms within the community of LE at times, and in some places more frequently than in others, and in such instances the good cops are nearly powerless to fight that blight from within. I believe that it makes no sense to run away from a police officer if you haven't done anything wrong, but I also believe that doing so should NOT cost you your life--running AWAY from LE is not putting the officer's life in danger...it's pissing them off, but it's no threat to that officer.  I believe that the man that was shot and killed in Ferguson, MO would not have been shot if he had kept running AWAY, instead of turning around to charge the officer; I believe that a 300# diabetic, asthmatic man who had repeatedly been arrested for selling cigarettes illegally would still be alive if he hadn't decided that 'this ends today' as if he was doing nothing wrong, and had instead accepted that he'd been caught yet again, and was being arrested yet again. Instead, he fought law enforcement, and he died because he made the wrong decision--just as if he couldn't swim, but decided to jump into a river to evade being arrested and drowned, that death would also have been his own fault.  And the man who was shot in the back in NC when he ran from a traffic stop because he thought it was over back child-support was MURDERED, plain and simple, by a cop who felt entitled to kill someone who defied him.  The man in Baltimore who died as a result of a severed spinal cord was likely not intentionally killed, but the facts are the police did NOT follow the official policy that demands suspects be safely restrained when placed in the police vehicle, and their failure to do so in hopes of him only getting banged around instead resulted in homicide charges being brought against them. Whose fault is that--the suspect's? Nope--it's the fault of those officers involved, because any one of them could, and SHOULD, have stepped forward and said, no, this man MUST be secured as required for his own safety, so they have no one else to blame but themselves.

By the same token, I can understand why officers can be too quick to shoot instead of using an alternate form of defense or disarmament--if the suspect has a gun, too, and shoots, that's always going to trump the cop's baton, spray, or taser, so understandedly the officer is scared at that point, too. It's a vicious circle, the suspect fears being shot, so they may decide to shoot first, and the cop fears being shot, so they might do likewise. OTOH, the officer in NYC who was just buried yesterday was just sitting in his patrol car, and ends up shot in the head, and two more officers on patrol in NYC earlier this year were gunned down for no discernable reason, either, save for that they were officers in uniform in an area where the police are treated with disdain and disrespect. But respect is a two-way street, and if it's not given by either side, it won't be gotten either.

All that said, Wifey, you will never, EVER convince me that a police officer has no choice but to use deadly force on a dog that is not actively attacking someone in a manner that will result in the death of that person. Being afraid of getting hurt is not sufficient excuse to kill a dog, anymore than it is sufficient reason for killing another person. If an officer's fears of pain are that compelling, he or she needs a new line of work, and no, I don't want them 'protecting' me or my community--because they do not have the strength of character that position requires.  As vk4gsd said, "Good cops are super-human."--and that's why they are respected, and rightly so.  Shoot my dog in my securely-fenced yard because you're amped up on adrenalin and allowing yourself to become hectic, and I can guarantee you, I will sue you in civil court for everything you own, right down to the gold in your teeth, officer or not.

Give 'em hell, Hexe. 

Very solid post. I agree with everything you have said. Perhaps my first post was too rash and written with too much anger to get my view point across. With all the shootings that have occurred in the last week of police officers with very little media attention compared to that of Freddie Grey, my nerves are on end and I am hyper sensitive to people talking bad about officers in a general manner. Yes, there are bad officers. But when people say "the police", they don't realize that every department city to city varies so much in protocol, policies, and laws to enforce that it is crazy! 

I just spoke to someone yesterday who said "I know your husbands department is different, BUT...." And after hearing this statement I have realized I need to set back and not get offended when people talk about officers. Perhaps they live in a city where the officers really are bad in General! Me getting angry won't help show them the other side.

as for dogs---- I know that from observing  other officers around my husbands canine that many people have no idea about dog body language. I said earlier that I didn't care if officers got trained on dogs ... What I meant to say is that I dont want it to replace more important training.

perhaps we should brainstorm a positive solution to the issue at hand--- officers scared of dogs to the point that they shoot them. Does this make them bad people? No. This means they need more training on the area.

not just training in a room. Training with a certified trainer and their dog. Do any of you know trainers that would be willing to volunteer their time to visit PDs?

^ good post, and lets not forget the pet dogs that have been shot INSIDE their own home and the dogs and owners are not even capable of being aggressive if they tried, stories on Geist's FB page.

Jenni,

why don't you post something that contributes to the topic? your posts often remind me of the people that make a circle around a fist fight and "ooh" and "aah" Over it.

your reply on my last topic was very helpful but then you come on this thread and make a comment that has no point and makes no contribution to the thread.

you have a lot of great advice to give but people will stop listening when you do things like that.

Wifey, why don't you refrain from commenting when you know what you're talking about and when YOUR post, likewise, brings nothing of value to the thread? If you must know, I was quoting a line from Hexe's signature in her email that I found fitting. She was on a roll. I acknowledged. 

I put info out there for those who are interested. No law says I can't occasionally make a comment that's lighthearted and not that valuable. Don't really care who listens to me and who doesn't. But thanks for the pep talk. 

Policewifey550, as I said--I understand that the subject is near and dear to your heart, and why, so I give you a pass on the emotion. My family includes military as well as law enforcement, but I also have been subject to or witness of bad actors in both of those communities, so I also know that there's reason for the emotion on BOTH sides of the uniform.

Jenni was referencing the sig line on all my email--even that sent via my official, Federal regulatory employee email--which is a quote from Harry S Truman:

"I don't give 'em hell...I tell the truth, and they think it's hell." 

So you can see why you misinterpreted what she posted, and what her intent was, right? And yeah, I was on a roll. Or a rant. Or both.

And yes, I agree with you that law enforcement should receive training on reading dog behavior, and on non-lethal ways to address unrestrained dogs, just as they clearly  need more training in dealing with the mentally ill, because the LE community overall is not handling either type of encounter in a way that speaks well of them in recent years.  I also believe that the prior to permitting a candidate to enroll in the police academy, or in any military capacity that will involve on-the-ground contact with the enemy or civilians, better psychological screening needs to be instituted to identify and disqualify those individuals who lean towards possessing the characteristics consistent with a bully--because the fact is that bullies are nothing more than fear-biters, insecure in themselves and therefore prone to using intimidation before any other behavior as a means of protecting themselves--as well as the narcissists who labor under the illusion that they are superior to all others, and therefore anyone opposing their will is defying them and thus insulting them...which leads to irrational anger. I submit that it is an increase in the training and hiring of people with a bullying nature that has caused the upswing in anti-police sentiment, when in truth those individuals compose a smaller percentage of that population--but they have a greater impact than the majority, because their bullying and aggression is not limited to the public, but also turned toward those officers and military personnel who are balanced men and women of good solid character.

Most police departments have access to a good trainer, since they have access to the trainers of the dogs used by law enforcement, who can do more than just teach an officer how to hold a leash, deploy a dog, do a search and call a dog back to them. These trainers need to understand canine body language in order to work with the dogs, and they also know how to defend themselves, should something go wrong while training, in a way that is not lethal to the dog. That information can be readily accessed by the departments' simply being willing to ask for the service, for all of their officers, not just the K9 handlers, and to pay for it, of course--and I'd be hard pressed to believe any community would object to public monies being spent in such a manner, either.  Harder to come by would be the training in dealing with the mentally ill, but that, too, is available if there is a will within the departments to secure such education for all of their officers.

I don't want to live in a community that has no law enforcement, just as I don't want to live in a country with no government--but I have the right to demand that both be compassionate first, and on the offense far below that. And it's what I try to hold myself to as well.

My husband spent five weeks training 8-5 Monday thru Friday to get his canine. He wasn't allowed to even hold her leash the first 8 days ! All they did was learn about dogs, dog training, body language, etc.

however, the trainer/importer they used is over 8 hours away. I can't think of one legit police canine trainer in Houston. Please let me know of any that come to mind within an hour of the city. I would love to suggest this to the department.

my husband is great. He learns every day. The problem is that he learned how to read his canines behavior... Not a normal dogs behavior. That may sound dumb but a canine trained in the Netherlands to be a k9 acts vey different than my rescue dog, for an easy example.

'my husband knows every single thing his k9 will do before she does it. But he still doesn't understand our fearful recues behavior in any way :( he does everything I tell him in regards to how to act, but he just doesn't "get it" because our rescue is so "effed up" that it doesn't fit the normal behavior he learned in class. 

Maybe be departments need to learn about fearful /reactive dogs as well?