Buying dogs from Europe - Page 1

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susie

by susie on 17 January 2016 - 19:01

Sometimes I take a look at the "classified" section, only out of curiosity...
I often wonder, and I thought, people should take a second look prior to buying a dog...

There are sold a lot of dogs day after day, but buyers should be aware that

in Germany dogs are x-rayed at 12 months, almost 80% are pre x-rayed ( 6 - 9 months ) - that said: never buy a dog older than 5 months without x-ray ( either pre x-ray or SV rating ).

In case you want to participate in any major SV events later on, take care that sire and dam of your puppy are breed surveyed ( no matter the country ).

A lot of East European dogs are sold as a combination of German sire, East European dam. Take a look at WinSis, if the stud ever sired the dam officially. In case the breed combination is not mentioned, ask for a copy of the German "Deckschein" = breed certificate. A lot of East European countries still don´t DNA, you get what you get, and without proof you have to believe...

Most of the East European countries are FCI members, there is NO reason, why their dogs shouldn´t be titled and breed surveyed, but it´s cheaper and easier to breed without title = without proof.

In case you are interested in a PPD, don´t believe in fancy videos showing dogs biting in a sleeve. That´s the 1X1 of dog training = that´s a GREEN dog, no PPD. Dogs of this kind are worth less than $ 2000 ( including HD/ED results ). The real quality of a dog shows up as soon as any kind of PRESSURE is involved ( out, guarding, retrieving, and so on).

Be attentive, as soon as a seller/broker always videos the same procedure ( same surrounding, same procedure = the dogs are used to it - they want to SELL ).

In case you are interested in a trained, but untitled dog, ask yourself: WHY is this dog not titled, although it´s trained?
Ready for IPO1 ? Why didn´t the trainer title the dog? A titled dog is much more worthful...

Stud dog for sale... any officially mentioned offspring? Ask for a sperm count and a contract...

Brood bitch for sale... no good brood bitch will be sold before she was bred bred 2 or 3 times. Take a look at WinSis again... Normally bitches are sold when 4 years old, not earlier...

Ask yourself, if you really want to import. We are far away, and we are able to tell you everything you want to hear - and since most of you are inexperienced in training dogs, you will believe us.

There are dog clubs in the United States of America, and there are breeders participating in dog sport, using the same bloodlines as we do - no difference, but they are living in your own country, they are able to help, and in case something goes wrong, you are able to get hold on them much easier...


by hntrjmpr434 on 17 January 2016 - 19:01

Great, great post.
Hopefully this will give those who are new some things to think about before making the decision to import.

srfwheat

by srfwheat on 17 January 2016 - 19:01

Great advice Suzie. Thank you!

Ctidmore

by Ctidmore on 17 January 2016 - 20:01

EXCELLENT post!!!!!!

by remus67 on 17 January 2016 - 21:01

1. Pre x-ray at 6 months old says...nothing! After 1 year is something else!
2. In any European Country, including East European ones, when you are mounting a dam with a sire, the sire owner is filling a Mount Statement and after birth, the female owner a Litter Statement based on which the Pedigree is released which, again, states who is the father of the litter. I agree DNA is better but you have to agree also that not all the breeders are thieves! Otherwise, I believe you, US citizens relay on your birth certificate and what your parents say not DNA, I suppose...
3. Ask yourself if you NEED to import! Why!? Because, in Europe the German shepherd was first established as a breed in 19th century (around the time when somewhere else an American-Philippines war was going). Why again!? Just check on this site, the all-time VA-1's (the Champions). You'll be, probably, surprised to find that ALL of them are European dogs! And, of course, the last but not the least: ALL of American German shepherds have European bloodlines, isn't it!?
Just my opinion...

susie

by susie on 17 January 2016 - 21:01

Deleted, because I didn´t want to start a fruitless discussion.

Just take care in case you want to import


kiesgsd

by kiesgsd on 17 January 2016 - 22:01

In my experience, a lot of people in the US import dogs because they are normally cheaper to import than it is to buy one in the US. The US breeders here are using the same bloodlines as European breeders, but will charge double for their puppies. A lot of people are wanting to take the cheaper route. At least, that's what I have been told by people who have imported plenty of dogs. Yes, the process can be a pain to deal with, but in their mind it's worth it, because of the price difference. A lot of the people importing dogs here in the US will import and then charge 2-3x more as soon as the dog lands on US soil. I don't agree with that personally, but they do it.

by Gee on 17 January 2016 - 23:01

Susie - good post, and agree with what you say, but potentially opens many cans of worms, your advice would expose many dogs titled and not.

Basically, so many titled dogs would crumble at stresses, and many breeders would not allow those tests to EVEN take place.

Speaking as a very small breeding / training kennel of working line PPD's, I would advise the following:  

If at all humanly possible - visit the kennel, and have a very good look at the parents.
(even without serious testing, you can gauge a lot simply by eye contact,and general interaction to you, hopefully a confident and semi knowledgeable person)

I Have lost count at the number of imports (UK) were these amazing adults, though very dark in pigmentation, are nervous wrecks, won't even look at you - no point with the physical stuff.

If you are looking at a pup from a PPD perspective -  test the parents in the muzzle, no dancing decoy and no BLOODY BITE SUIT OR SLEEVE.

Request you do this in a NEW location, (you choose) and with serious distraction - a good kennel will have no problem with that. (And should be part of there marketing blurb)


Remmember a good dog with serious civil drive is like a Martini - any time any place.

(And thankfully there are many out there, quite often - you DON'T HAVE TO IMPORT)

Finally - a decent trainer will have spent hundreds of hours, socializing and conditioning a pup they will eventually breed, way before ANY serious training/

Important point because the other side of the coin is - many buyers believe that merely buying a pup with a good working pedigree is all it takes. (that ignorance fuels the fire of instant and easy expectation, and culls all possible potential)

Regards
Gee




 


by kellycola on 17 January 2016 - 23:01

Much cheaper price for a gorgeous dog is exactly why I have considered a Eiropean dog. That said, I have not yet bought one. I'm not interested in breeding one, I just want one for protection. I'd consider showing but it isn't a big deal one way or another. I do want a calm and confident dog that will bite if needed. Usually, just having a big GSD is intimidating enough to why bad guys.

by remus67 on 18 January 2016 - 00:01

Somehow, the replies gave me a reason to continue with an example. Maybe you realized I am from Eastern Europe. Let me tell you how serious breeders from my country are planning:
- on the contrary, against all the above, we are trying hard to import puppies or, more than that, to breed with best possible males from abroad, despite the huge prices compared with our own, local, dogs! Let me tell you something. You can buy a 2-3 months old puppy from Romania, with VA bloodline into the pedigree with a decent 4-500 Euros. Many times, this price is barely covering the breeder expenses with the food, medication, training, shows, etc. with the dogs. On the other hand, the same quality puppy costs in Western Europe at least double if not triple! However, we are making huge efforts to do so! Imagine a 3000 km trip just not to be sure your female will be getting pregnant! And count this will mean thousands of Euros spent! (Did you noticed here a revers pattern!? US lovers are importing because is cheaper, we are going there against the huge prices...). Why are we doing that!? Simple. Because this means we will improve the quality of our dogs! By all means, this is the idea, isn't it!? I am talking here about improving health and temperament of the breed!
Tell me, how many honest buyers from the states spent 3000 USD on a puppy and after few months they realized he is displasic? Or he hasn't both testicles, or else!? So, what I mean is nothing, but nothing, will stop me spending extra money for my dogs sake!
Susie, I am not trying to disagree with your opinion! I am just asking WHY not to import if that imported dogs will IMPROVE the existing lines in your country!?





 


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