Intending to get a pup from this dog: Any view points? - Page 10

Next time I´ll hire you, Joan...seems to be better.

Trouble is, [especially when 'everybody' uses a
chainsaw], even if - while not reading the instructions -
the next guy to buy and use one is of the persuasion
that they don't need to learn by seeing anyone
else use one, or listening to what an experienced
user says about safety, they really are statistically
more likely to hurt themself, or someone else nearby.
LOL, nice analogy.

Bee, the answer to your question : sorry if I have never
made this clear enough (!), - I was provided with and shown
how to use a prong by the partner of my GSD 'mentor',
back in the '80s, because one of their Showbred dogs, a
fully grown sub-adult, needed to be homed with a buyer
who wanted him for PP and companionship, and would
have no interest in the Show ring. The dog's training needed
to be reversed, away from being encouraged to pull on ahead
of me in the (SV style) ring, to walking at heel consistently. And
it was proving difficult. My mentor's partner worked in Security
and knew what he was about. At his suggestion I used the
prong. (I was not completely unaware of them in abstract even
then). It helped, I would not say it was the entire answer. I
dispensed with it after a short time as it became no longer
appropriate to that situation. I have subsequently used a
prong with about 3 other dogs, (that's roughly one every 10
years), for various lengths of use and various training reasons, one of those biting / Manwork (but not in any

Sport setting).
So, as I have always claimed, I regard it as one of the tools
available to us, when appropriate. I do not particularly "like"
that tool, I am not wedded to it just because I have used it with success, I just don't find it necessary much of the time. It does not have magic powers.  There
ARE other ways to teach 'difficult' dogs. I do not 'dictate' that
anyone else should NOT use one, I simply debate whether many
of those who do use them should be using them as a permanent adjunct to their leash, and whether they use them correctly.
When you see on TV somebody in the US with a prong on an Affenpinscher, for example, (not a particularly rare event of its
kind !) you really have to wonder if it was necessary ! JUST AS I WOULD - and do - WONDER ABOUT THE SAME SORT OF USE
OF A CHECK COLLAR, ON SMALLER DOGS,HERE IN ENGLAND.

In my view, a prong has more to commend it as a collar

used when the dog knows it is to be 'worked', for real or

for manwork in sport, but once the dog recognises it as

something used to 'manage' him/her in those circumstances,

you don't ALWAYS use it every time;  thus keeping it

more effective, with a "surprise" value; ditto e collars.

You certainly don't want to use it day in, day out, every

day and everywhere;  a dog can soon learn to disregard

that if it is hard enough & bright enough, and can easily

then 'blow you off'.  My two cents - I don't expect everyone

to agree.

Okay, got that covered well enough!

Mithuna,

What about an update on your plans? Are you still planning on getting the second pup, and how will you be managing it? I'm sure your answer will be good for another 10,000 clicks!

Funny hund mutter, never seen a dog on a prong collar on tv here in the US. Must be different channels and tv programs over there 

Not really sure why you keep beating the US prong collar debate to the ground. Almost every video of a dog I have seen that is in Germany or Holland uses a prong(GASP!!!!)---hope you don't desire to visit those countries, may be an unpleasant experience for you.

As with every tool, it can be used properly or abused.

I wouldn't be so quick to knock a tool completely because I don't know how to use it.....

Jumper, good post .

If I were a better hand with technology, Joan (and had
umpteen hours to fiddle around) I'd send you some
links, showing the frequency with which I've seen US
dogs wearing prong collars (usually in situations that
I am confident would not meet with the approval of e.g.
the much referenced on PDB Susan Barwig, and other
well known trainers). Don't know how you have missed
all of them.

I don't keep harping on about the collars, I'd said my piece
on the topic; but Beetree asked me a question.

Sorry. My last post should have been addressed to hntr
rather than Joanro, but since you so agree with each
other, I have PM'd you both.

Hund, you don't live in the us, you only get TV to learn what all us bad american dog owners are doing to abuse our bitsy toy breeds that are dragging us down the side walk ( according to you). You have said your piece in your nasty pm to me, very odd.. I'm not responsible for all the crappy prongs you mentioned that are being sold to pet owners thanks to pet smart and the 'dog whisper' promotions.

And yes, I do agree often with hunterjumper...because very often they are logical.

philosophy 101; I annoy, therefore I am.???????????????? is that what midhana meant on the last page?

Hmm... Could be! That would make us... suckers?