Detection Dogs ... the need exceeds supply - Page 3

Because of that I asked :

" Are there any dog training facilities owned by government in the US, or are all of them privately owned? "

Either knowbody knows or knowbody is interested to answer my question.

In case law enforcement in your country is depending on trained dogs or professional trainers first and foremost, trained dogs will be too expensive forever.
We do have several police dog training camps over here, the handlers and their green dogs learn together, get qualified, and have to come back regularly for re-qualification.

Medical alert dogs are quite different, this really would need to be established by "pet owners". Over here we do have so called "Rettungshundestaffeln", most of them are part of the Red Cross, volunteers only, they don´t get money, they are members of https://www.bundesverband-rettungshunde.de/de/

They are depending on donations, but as soon as public becomes aware of their usefulness ( and people/institutes/companies are able to save up taxes when donating ) money will come.

I´d go this route.

Many large city police departments have their own training programs. Many have a helper/decoy that knows what they're doing and he's on the payroll and the dogs are worked enough to keep up their skills. Some smaller cities also have a helper/decoy/trainer available as quite a few sport helpers are also policemen and it just makes sense to learn those skills.

The US military has their own breeding and training program.

Most small departments rely on private companies for their K9s. There are plenty of small private companies doing this. They try to fill the need, but they can only train so many dogs a year.

Finding competent trainers isn't hard if you're willing to pay for it. I know one place that starts at $60,000 a year plus overtime and full benefits. You can assume that the total cost of that single employee is about $100,000 a year if not more. So that's what you have to compete with if you're a non-profit.

A good helper or dog trainer can easily get $100 an hour for a lesson. A session of bitework is anywhere from $20-$50 depending on the skill/qualification of the helper and area they're in. Also depends on the demand. A board and train for sport or even pet can cost as much as $2000 a month, but probably closer to $1000. Many of the qualified trainers can easily work for themselves training pet dogs and other sport dogs and make a better living than they can working for a place like that. By the time you're done adding up the costs of a detection dog or a dual purpose K9...it's going to be hard to keep enough donations coming in to keep handing them out to agencies.

On top of that, most government agencies (including police departments) have plenty of funding, they have no issue buying a dog. They get plenty of tax revenue in order to find it in their budget to buy a dog if necessary.

Thank you, Bav...

"...Many have a helper/decoy that knows what they're doing and he's on the payroll and the dogs are worked enough to keep up their skills."

To keep up there skills "only" or to train them accordingly? ( green dog/well trained dog)

"Most small departments rely on private companies for their K9s. There are plenty of small private companies doing this. They try to fill the need, but they can only train so many dogs a year."

Why don´t they send their handler/dog teams to the "large cities" instead?

"Many of the qualified trainers can easily work for themselves training pet dogs and other sport dogs and make a better living than they can working for a place like that."

I always forget about the difference Europe/united States...

"On top of that, most government agencies (including police departments) have plenty of funding, they have no issue buying a dog."

If this is true, your country is in no need to change the status quo ( good for my landsmen )...

Why does a scent detection dog need bite work? I think this conversation is going off in a wrong direction.

 

Check this out, Susie:

Did you know the CIA has its own dedicated staff of dog trainers? K-9 officers are an important part of our Security Protective Service (SPS), which ensures the CIA and its employees are kept safe. The trainers, all SPS officers themselves, work with a select group of dogs and handlers to teach them the ins-and-outs of explosives detection. Dogs have a remarkable ability to sniff out over 19,000 explosive scents, making them ideal for this job.

Dogs chosen for the Agency training course are hand selected by CIA trainers primarily from “Puppies Behind Bars,” a program that pairs inmates with puppies to teach the dogs basic commands.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2015-featured-story-archive/cia-top-10-dog-training-tips.html

Here is a whole manual! Haven't read it yet, myself...

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/manuals/ports/downloads/detector_dog.pdf

And this... in my own backyard, no less!

In the early 1990's, ATF, the Connecticut State Police and the U.S, Department of State, Office of Antiterrorism Assistance initiated a program wherein ATF would provide trained explosives detection canine teams to selected foreign countries to assist them in their efforts to combat terrorism. Thus far, ATF has certified over 300 canines and deployed them to 13 different countries, including Argentina, Australia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Chile, Egypt, Greece, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Malaysia, Poland, and South Africa. Currently, ATF has 21 ATF agent/handlers working with explosives detection canines located throughout the United States. In the summer of 1998, the ATF canine program also began offering this training to other Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies.

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/accelerant-and-explosives-detection-canines

As part of this cooperative effort, ATF offers training in arson and explosives for state and local investigators and prosecutors. 

 

Available Courses

Advanced Explosives Disposal Techniques (Course ID EXPL-CS-0001)
Advanced Origin and Cause/Courtroom Testimony (Course ID ARSON-CS-0002)
Home Made Explosives (Identification, Process, Disposal) (Course ID EXPL-CS-0018)
Post Blast Investigative Techniques I (Course ID EXPL-CS-0013)
Department of State Diplomatic Security Service Post Blast Investigative Techniques (Course ID EXPL-CS-0011)
Explosives Recognition & IED Exploitation for Intel Analysts (Course ID EXPL-CS-0028)

The Canine Border Patrol maintains their own breeding dogs. Apparently, the separate govt. entities each have their own way of doing things.

CBP maintains a breeding program to supplement the number of suitable dogs entering detection training for the CBP mission. Working and sporting breed dogs are whelped and cared for in a variety of approved housing facilities. The puppies' final evaluation takes place between 7 and 14 months of age when they enter into one of the formal detection canine courses.

http://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/canine-program/background

For specific pricing, it is all right here, the AMK9 contract, good until year 2020:

https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS07F5770R/0OJ9IC.36MAL9_GS-07F-5770R_AMK9GSA061015.PDF

 

Bee, this disgression makes sense, because as soon as there are structured training routes, you may be able to use these routes to your own favour.

For example: It can´t be that difficult to train "vapor wave" instead of "drug detection". All these different organizations working TOGETHER, training together, creating the same standards nationwide, would lower the costs immediately.
No more buying of expensive, privately trained dogs, but training by themselves, sending the dog/handler teams to the centres.

Once again, this wouldn´t work for medical alert dogs, in this case you´d need supporters like f.e. the Red Cross, and a nation wide organization like BRH in Germany, creating a standard for training and titling.

From what I am understanding is, the traditional explosive detection dog training mentioned from one of the earlier links, is about $5K vs. $25K for the vapor wake trained dog. Why, I don't know yet, except if there is a patent involved, then there must be a certain high start up cost involved that is much different than the traditional scent detection dog. Presumedly, the wheel doesn't need to keep being re-invented for each new dog being trained, yes? Insisting all scent dogs need to be patrol/apprehension dogs will increase the whole cost and I think that really, has to be unnecessary.

Locating the target is the pressing issue for the dog, not having a dog take them out.

I am zeroing in on explosive detection only, for the moment, as that seems to be what is needed to keep our public places from being dangerous bomb targets. If the detector dogs can pinpoint the threat, then the apprehension is seen as a separate task. Apparently, to keep to govt. standards, there needs to be certain credentialed personnel, as well. Offering courses that could provide those credentials would be a good way to spread the skill level outward.

Some if not all the varied govt. organizations have some specialized needs, so requiring all of them to be same is also an excess burden, if the object is to have more scent dogs patrolling sooner, and showing a presence that will be seen as a deterence. That is my thinking.

 

Also, assuming local PD's have unlimited funding available for their K9 programs, is just not true.

I guess it´s the "patent" - because of that I suggested to send some trainers to AMK9, learn how to do it, change the name, do it on their own, give it an official name / title.
Centralized training camps are cheaper than local training facilities ( and one real good trainer is better than several mediocre trainers ), "green" dogs are cheap, I guess you are able to find dogs suitable for detection work ( without the ability to do patrol work ) everywhere.

I'm assuming larger departments don't train dogs for smaller ones because they’re plenty busy training their own and there are also weird rules sometimes about state/county/local agencies “charging” others for their services, and I’m also assuming there is some sort of insurance risk involved where if the dog fails there could be questions about that training and the last thing any police department needs is more liability brought on by another department’s failure.

What you also have to realize about the United States is that the sheer size makes “centralization” extremely difficult. On top of that, if this were a federal program, you’d have a lot of fighting about where to set it up, you’d also have a tougher time passing it because congress would have to approve it. If federal dollars are being used, all the states would want equal use of it. If a state sets this up, there is again questions of allowing other states to use the facility without reimbursing costs, and once again that whole liability thing comes into play.

The private companies are doing a good enough job keeping up with the demand and allowing more and more to enter if necessary and if the people running it/training the dogs have proven success. In either case, for-profit companies tend to have an ability to do things much more efficiently than non-profits or government agencies. They also don’t have to go through long approval processes for improvements or changes.

If we're going to discuss just having a large amount of detection dogs out and about our cities...the problem isn't having the dogs, the problem is the handlers. You're talking $60,000 or more per year for each handler with salary and benefits...most cities aren't set up to handle that kind of increase in payroll.