Environmental / Civil Training. - Page 1

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by Gee on 14 July 2016 - 12:07

Working at height up a ladder, the decoy is wearing a hidden leg sleeve.

R
Gee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy89m_UA5k





 



BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 14 July 2016 - 15:07

 


Nice one Gee Thumbs Up

 


by Gee on 14 July 2016 - 20:07

Cheers Marcel.

Gee.

yogidog

by yogidog on 15 July 2016 - 10:07

Another grate environmental video I love to c ladders been used as usual very solid nerves . U won't c this kind of test on a fieldWink Smile


by Gee on 15 July 2016 - 11:07

Hi Yogi,
Your feedback is appreciated - thanks.
R
Gee.

by Bavarian Wagon on 15 July 2016 - 13:07

You're right Yogi...a dog doesn't get worked up, taunted, and get help from the helper to get into a higher drive in order to engage and bite on a trial field. Crazy that we expect dogs to present the correct levels of drive and bring it themselves rather than getting help from a screaming/moving person in order to get them there.

Oh and stairs...yup...such a rarity that you see a dog that has no issue moving up and down stairs.

yogidog

by yogidog on 15 July 2016 - 15:07

BW your dog starts its game in prey drive with lots of encouragement and is always worked up from a very young age be for it hits a the field it knows the game inside out . Dog knows what to do and what not to do as it has been drilled into him in the years of training before hand .nothing new on the field that haven't seen before. so your mad if you think your dog will do this field work without all that coaxing and use of drive cracking of the whip decoy running around like a chicken. and any other things u do .But I don't think help is any harm as long as they recover and work through it witch Gees dog obviously did


by Gee on 15 July 2016 - 16:07

@BW - think you will find in your sport, the overwhelming number of dogs are triggering PURELY on the sleeve. (No sleeve = not interested)

You are kidding yourself on if you think the drive they are showing is anything other than anticipation for the sleeve. (Mega rehearsed at that)

The decoy in the above vid is not dancing or screaming, he has been instructed to act naturally without going OTT this is a civil training situation. Also no visual trigger re a lobster arm. (He is wearing a very well concealed and ultra slim leg sleeve)

There is another vid of a young bitch of mines, posted a couple of days ago on this forum, called deliberately not pumped up. She is muzzled, not pumped up, out of drive and responds to a verbal on a passive decoy who is wearing NO equipment.

My dogs and my training do not rely on equipment triggering a response.

Your sport - is built on that VISUAL trigger. (Protection element)

On the field - bark and hold, the trigger IS the sleeve / routine. (If you think that routine constitutes some sort of credible passive attack - you are hallucinating) 

Also very varied environments be that - in the sea, up ladders, slippery floors, confined spaces, in a car, etc etc - my dogs do.

This coupled with real physical stresses - CO2, Shotgun blanks, high pressure water, multiple attackers etc etc. (some times whilst the dog is muzzled and all with different decoys).

All of the above my dogs do. (and can be SEEN doing)

Your interpretation of pressure are subtle nuances - be that posturing of the decoy, or a different green field - all of which in comparison to physically chalenging envirnoments and credible physical stresses - is LAME.

BW - you talk a lot, and show nothing off your own work, do you actually have a dog you trial?

You hide behind anoynaminity, you were asked on a different, but very recent thread by some one else, to name your dog, and you didn't.
They then politely asked how they would identify you at a forthcoming championship show - you blanked them.

I care not a jot because the stuff you kid yourself on as being pressure. (The aforementioned nuances, in comparison to how I and many others train - is LAME)
R
Gee
 


by Bavarian Wagon on 15 July 2016 - 16:07

Wait a minute? That wasn't the decoy sticking his leg out in the video to make sure the dog bit him in the leg? I must've watched the wrong video then. Guess there was absolutely no trigger for the dog to bite the leg. Lol.

Gee...you don't do my sport. You're stuck in a tiny country with very little of the sport I do. You watch YouTube videos and read forums and make conclusions based on that. The training is fine, you do what you want to do. The dog is a good dog...but you make it out to be a unicorn. You and your buddies demean people training for sport at every step you get. Yogi wants to talk about how sport dogs get built up and trained to do the things they do on the field...you want to tell me that the dog in the video has never bitten a hidden leg sleeve? Never bitten on a set of stairs before? Yeah right. It's been done before, the dog did it. If you lay a good enough barking/biting foundation, a dog should do it in every circumstance if it has good nerves, clearly the dog in the video has good enough nerves. I can also promise you that within a 20 minute "sport" training session, I can tell you if a dog is capable of biting in a dark room, on a set of stairs, on a different surface, or with a different presentation. It's really not hard to read a dog even in a simplified situation such as IPO. Everything on top of it is just gimmicks and fun for the people training. I've done plenty of that with my dog for fun, send them into dark basements, search out the helper, bark and hold, bite. I knew exactly which dogs would succeed and which would fail...no reason to even do that exercise with those that wouldn't be able to do it. Those that would (sport trained mind you) had absolutely no issue with it.

Everything you throw at your dogs is taught, I guarantee your decoy or yourself work your dog through any issue you do see and then a month later post a video of the perfected work. A good dog is easily desensitized to the majority of things you listed off as "more pressure." A good helper, or even dog trainer, can easily read a dog during the pressure phases of IPO and tell you how that dog would respond in the situations you guys like to put on.

No one has ever asked me about my dog's name. And when someone did ask me about a recent trial, I told them I'd be trialing in MY REGION and not the REGION that's 30 hours drive away from me. Again, being an Englishman, I'd expect higher level of English comprehension. I give a break to some of the people on here from non English speaking countries, but in this case...work a little harder at understanding what is written.

by Bavarian Wagon on 15 July 2016 - 16:07

Yogi...have you watched an IPO trial ever? There is no running around or coaxing...a helper can't use a whip in a trial. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that a titled IPO dog won't engage/bark/bite a helper that isn't coaxing...

 

Or are you tyring to say that the dog in the video was never coaxed or trained to perform the behavior it shows in the video and that it just barked and bit without any prior training? That unlike an IPO dog, this dog just came out of the womb ready to bark and bite a helper, take the bag of plastic over the head, ect? Interesting theory...






 


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