Non DDR bloodline that breed the DDR structure or similar - Page 4

Pedigree Database


by emoryg on 17 March 2020 - 20:03

There’s such good advice on the thread. And good for you Pyro for being open and willing to take it in. Stay ambitious!

by ValK on 18 March 2020 - 10:03


at 21 y.o. - you have lots of time.
perhaps best way to start is to get involved in practical interaction with dogs. not as breeder but as handler. there are no book written which can supersede own practical experience. i don't know your circumstances and ability to have own dog at present but i guess you can join/volunteer for org. with dogs. don't know if that possible but would be good if such facility to be one, involved with police or military dogs preparation.
additionally it's will give you knowledge about your own potential to be capable to work with dogs. love for the dogs not always equal to ability to work them.

by Rik on 19 March 2020 - 07:03

well just to add some thoughts to what has turned out to be a very interesting thread, I will say that at first I did not take pyro very serious. but the fact that he is seriously pursuing and apparently succeeding in his criminal justice studies has changed my mind.

I have a lot of experience in breeding dogs in my mind and fantasy pedigrees.

the reality, I have found is very different from the fantasy once one starts dealing with the actual dog with pointy ears and a bushy tail with a leash attached.

my only advice to pyro is that at some point, you have to actually start to gain experience with real world dogs. there is no way that an inexperienced person is going to put together pedigrees on paper and succeed. there have been quite a few failures by large governments and private organizations. I remember the U.S. Military "super dog" program. also the U.S. marines program for the Dobe "devil dog".

it still seems that the best and most suitable dogs for mil/LE come from breeders who not only know the requirements very well, but seriously proof their dogs in venues that demonstrate suitability for whatever goal they are pursuing.



by Koots on 19 March 2020 - 09:03

OP - wherever you are studying now, try to find some dog club(s) that do IGP (schutzhund), Ring Sport, PSA/PDC, Mondio Ring, etc and attend training days. Also see if the local police K9 unit accepts volunteers for quarry work (I did this with 2 different police departments). Watch, listen, ask questions (but don't interfere with training) and gain some knowledge about performance dogs. You can only gain experience by doing, no matter how many books you read and it takes YEARS to gain enough knowledge to get into responsible breeding.  Also face the reality that some people are more suitable to train and work with dogs, while some people just never have that intuition or 'feel' for dogs. Until you can start to work with your own dog, learn as much as you can from others, and be realistic about your goals and your own abilities. It seems like you have some admirable long-term goals, I hope you can help improve the quality of dogs and training in your home country.

by xPyrotechnic on 20 March 2020 - 10:03

Thanks for the advice's given, i started to watch videos of the dogs that i had chosen and their parents and most of them are suitable for sports only, i can see why seeing them in person or them doing competitions is highly important.


by emoryg on 21 March 2020 - 21:03

It can be difficult to watch those videos and make a determination if the dog is suitable for the work you desire.  The great majority of the bloodlines that you see in those dogs are the same bloodlines that police the streets in the states and other parts of the world.  The most important thing is the individual merits of each dog.  

As far as providing dogs who do bitework activities for your country , it may be beneficial and a more cost effective (and timely) approach if at first you identify the desirable traits you wish to see.  Once identified you can learn how to test for those traits, then select adults who already possess them.  As far as breeding, an option might be to breed these dogs to determine reproductive value, then place them with your law enforcement type agencies.  If you are providing the dogs, you may be able to maintain breeding rights.  In other words, find the perfect dogs, breed the perfects dogs, then reproduce more perfect dogs.  If only it was that easy.

Here something that may help you get started on identifying specific traits.  That’s the easy part.

I suggest, like others have, that you become involved in your police dog community and start learning by observing.  But never limit yourself to just that venue.  You would be neglecting a considerable amount of knowledge if you failed to take advantage of the sport clubs and all they offer.  BTW the majority of police dogs in the states get their start in the sport.  6 of the 8 dogs I policed with started in the sport, with 5 of those having titles ranging from SVV1 to PH1. 

In addition, there may be civilian police dogs trainers in your area that are willing to work with you.  Almost all of these are ‘for profit’ setups and have a business to run.  It can be difficult for them to invest the time and effort to work with you.  Some of them are at it from sun up to sun down.  Try to identify local breeders, or professional kennels setup to provide suitable candidates for police and military style operations.  They can be a wealth of information, especially on the traits of their bloodlines.  You’ll have to feel out what you have access too.

As soon as possible start spending time with the k-9 units, but this can be difficult and perhaps impossible as a civilian to get involved.  If that is the case, try to access the public sectors mentioned above until you begin your career in law enforcement.   Generally, officer certification and employment allows you some exposure to the police dogs of yours agency and others.  In the states, you can even attend many police dog training seminars as an officer without a dog. 

Once you can gain access, you will need to observe the police dogs as they train.  Those seminars are an excellent way to observe dozens of police dogs in their training environments.  Many of these events may attempt to mimic real life events.  Often this can start training your eye to detect the subtle differences in the dog’s training performance that may have a marked effect while on real calls.  Start asking questions about the behaviors you see. 

If and when you become a road officer (usually the prerequisite for advancement), I strongly encourage you to run actual calls with the k-9 teams.  Volunteer to be the backup officer or ask if you can run with the teams as they deploy.  Watching the police dogs over and over, and over again and again while on the scene will help you gain an understanding of how seeming identically dogs, can perform so different when away from the same training environment. 

Begin networking and reach out to other handlers with different organizations.  Explain your interest and intentions and ask if you can view bodycam footage of their deployments. There may be stipulations, i.e, active investigation, etc…I have no idea how that works outside the states.  Overall you will be surprised with how many handlers who are willing to contribute.  If possible, go observe as many of the dogs on the bodycams as you can while they train, or request videos of their training regimen.  This again affords you the opportunity to compare their change in behaviors, if any.  Now is a good time to start collecting pedigrees or locating bloodlines (tattoos,microchips) that you can connect to these dogs if that interest you.

Continue to observe as many police dogs as you can in actions, both on and off the training field.  Collecting information as they operate under the loads of stress is vitally important to identify the desirable traits and possible bloodlines responsible for them.

As you observe these dogs, ask yourself do they display the same motivation and abilities as they do in training?   What behavioral changes can be observed from the training environment to the real life encounters.  An example might be, does the police dog engage the suspect with the same intensity and commitment as they do while on the training equipment?  If not, ask yourself why.  If they do, ask yourself why.  Begin to identify the traits of the stronger police dogs.  Listen for handlers as they describe dogs while working the street such as, hard, tough, brings it, dominates, pounds, punishes, etc. so you can keep an eye out for them.  Just as important is identifying the traits of the weaker dogs as well.  Ask why these traits make them behave different.  If the dogs are receiving the same training program, but are performing different in the field, we need to understand why.  Only by asking why can you begin to appreciate that there are specific traits and amounts that are more desirable than others.  These traits originate from the internal motivates/desires/drives of the individual dogs. 

This is just a start.

Listen, read, watch, get involved, observe, ask why.


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