What do you see in this vid? - Page 6

Pedigree Database

 

by ThatWasClose on 11 August 2020 - 16:08

Raising my hand...

I asked Koots to post new puppy picts, as they are always enjoyable & create interaction here on PDB. That she chose to post that particular video was very brave of her, & a good learning/teaching opportunity for us all.

This Thread has allowed me to learn a surprising bit about how PPD/Sport dog people think & interact with their dogs. It is very different than how we interact & treat working Black Mouth Cur's & Catahoula's (or American Bulldog's) down at the ranch.

Please do not mistake our dogs for lounge lizards. They deal with grumpy 1,000 plus pound cattle; will fight off coyote packs; & lay into wild hogs. Then we expect them to switch off & play with & watch over the ranch kids & their little friends.

Very different worlds.

Koots

by Koots on 11 August 2020 - 16:08

Those 'ranch dogs' are real workers for sure. Make my 'sport dogs' look like spoiled rich kids at the tennis club, lol.


Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 11 August 2020 - 22:08

BE - lay off. I am tired of being your target for whiplash, k? I have been nothing but positive when commenting on your posts, so would appreciate the same courtesy, thanks. If you have nothing positive to say/contribute, then 'silence is golden'. One can disagree with things being posted, but do it in a civil manner - others seem to be able to do this.  As Hired said - I am just trying to generate some discussion - what's the harm in that?

Not quite sure what you mean with whiplash. I have not attacked you at all. 


by ThatWasClose on 11 August 2020 - 23:08

@BE, the Moderator spoke. Perhaps it would have been kinder & wiser to have let sleeping dogs lie?


Personally, I do not see why we should be demanded to do a search for OLD comments in the forums, when we can learn interacting here & now.

It has been a very enlightening Thread for me. Especially to learn ya'll are super-paranoid over always fully supervising your dogs; & that some people always separate packs animals (dogs) at 5 or so weeks of age. I bet I never would have learned the separation thing doing a dominance search.


For the record we do not separate pups. They figure out pretty much on their own where they fit in amongst their litter mates, & later in the larger pack as whole. For the most part we turn very young puppies out with older, albeit more tolerant, adults. Not to imply we humans never provide our input on behaviors, though mostly the older dogs teach the younger dogs manners.

I used to walk puppies, along with a couple, three or more of the older dogs to keep us all safe & the pups learn by example. I mainly liked walking down along the creek under the trees. A lot of interesting things for pups to encounter down there. The general obstacles of fallen branches, little & big banks to go up & down, learning about water. Watching the hell out for snakes. Maybe flushing a rabbit or armadillo. The scary times when one encounters a bobcat, or God forbid wild pigs.

It all develops & trains the pups, these fun little walks. It also trains & teaches any of the ranch kids that would tag along too. What type of tree or plant. Looking for paws prints & spore. Watching the hell out for snakes! Sure you have the ones that are too curious & the lagers, but we all learn-both pup & child. I learned the character of my charges. The noses on these breeds mean a whole lot of curiosity to search out what they smell. Here were the first real lessons in control. Either let's try to find it, or nope not today we are going to carry on our own way. I learned my dogs, they learned what I expected of them on foot. Learning cows is a whole different game, pretty much down to either they genetically have it or they don't. A wonderful life outside in freedom of movement.

God knows not like today when they want folks to be locked inside, muzzled in masks, looking at depressing grey walls they decided should be the latest colour fashion trend. Prisons have grey walls...

For the record, I no longer walk dogs. I am too old now, & the aches & pains of too many broken bones has caught up with me.

Oh, here is something else. Our dogs are expected to ride on the back of flat bed trucks. I know, that absolutely horrifies some of you. If you go into town to get something with dogs on the truck (highly likely), they are fully expected to mind their own eff'ing business & not stir shit up with any other dogs on trucks. That is a cardinal rule of ranch dogs.


Koots

by Koots on 12 August 2020 - 00:08

That was an awesome insight into your ranch dogs' lives, thanks for that.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 12 August 2020 - 02:08

Lots of good advice there for dogs in all sorts of situations, TWC ! And people too.


by Hired Dog on 12 August 2020 - 03:08

Thatwasclose, I was born and raised in the city, have always lived in one, concrete, neon lights. I am used to it and I actually like it, but, no creeks or cows or snakes here.
Dogs have to learn different things that apply in their lives, like traffic and people everywhere. They have to be closely supervised because of our closeness and lack of space.
It was me who said I believe pups should be separated at 5 weeks so they don't learn to be either bullies or wimps and I believe that.

Here, if we take dogs for walks its in city owned parks, so, they must learn how to behave on leash and tolerate other people and dogs walking by them.
I have seen dogs ride in the back of open trucks, its against the law here, and I have always felt the deep need to kick someone's ass when I seen it. Any day of the week, you can drive on I-95 and see a couple of dead dogs on the side of the road that fell out of a pick up truck.
I did own one 20 years a go, but, it had a crate that was secured in the bed and that is where the dog went every time.
My dog has never worked a cow, but, its expected to walk through a terminal crowded with 5000 noisy people, some inebriated, and pay no attention to them.

This is not a "my dog is better then yours" type of post, its meant to illustrate the different worlds dogs come from and live in and whats required of them to function in those worlds.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 12 August 2020 - 04:08

Friend of mine, a Trainer over here in the UK, has been posting some musings recently on the fact that so many breeders when weaning litters feed the pups all from one big bowl / trough. He has come to the conclusion that this encourages puppies to scrap unneccesarily and they would be better off starting out with a small bowl each. Maybe adding a 'spare' too, for any particularly hungry or pushy pup to move on to, rather than shoving one of its siblings aside.

I think there would still be some pushing and shoving 'cos I've watched litters, and older dogs, feeding en masse from their own bowls and they still do a certain amount of 'his is better than mine' ... but it might reduce some of the resource-guarding behaviours pet owners find so trying ? Also give better confirmation that each pup has had the right amount of food.

What do you guys think ? I don't think he's advocating separating the pups permanently from one another. (I can't for example see that working if I'd try to do it in my workplace where we ran part or whole litters on into maturity).


by Hired Dog on 12 August 2020 - 05:08

Hund, I have always been a big advocate of separating puppies after they are weaned and allowing daily interactions that are supervised. The pups eat alone, sleep alone and get socialized alone, that way you can observe their individual weakness and strengths.
In my mind, there is nothing to be gained by leaving them all together, except some will become bullies and others pushovers, because that is how the genetic dice were rolled.
I have interest in neither and I believe that this method gives puppies a chance to flourish on their own, for their own.
Over the years, I have heard the arguments, "they need to learn bite inhibition", no, my dog does not and if he does, its MY job to teach it, not some other pup or the bitch.
Social skills can be learned according to my likes and dislikes and prepare the puppy for the life that it will live in my home and the real world.
I have seen pups that have stayed together too long and become "doggy" and that is not a place I want to be. I cannot stand a dog that looks for other dogs in order to feel whole or entertained or whatever and no human will ever be as much fun as another dog to play with all day, no thank you.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 12 August 2020 - 06:08

Friend of mine, a Trainer over here in the UK, has been posting some musings recently on the fact that so many breeders when weaning litters feed the pups all from one big bowl / trough. He has come to the conclusion that this encourages puppies to scrap unneccesarily and they would be better off starting out with a small bowl each. Maybe adding a 'spare' too, for any particularly hungry or pushy pup to move on to, rather than shoving one of its siblings aside.

I think there would still be some pushing and shoving 'cos I've watched litters, and older dogs, feeding en masse from their own bowls and they still do a certain amount of 'his is better than mine' ... but it might reduce some of the resource-guarding behaviours pet owners find so trying ? Also give better confirmation that each pup has had the right amount of food.

What do you guys think ? I don't think he's advocating separating the pups permanently from one another. (I can't for example see that working if I'd try to do it in my workplace where we ran part or whole litters on into maturity).

 

This doesn't happen when breeders feed more than the puppies can actually eat. In this time and age, it's all about drive. So I'm seeing a lot of breeders underfeeding puppies on purpose to already build that food drive in there. They always want to leave them a little bit hungry.

And then there are those who don't feed enough out of sheer ignorance with litters that are as large as 10 or 12 puppies. I have yet to have any food aggression issues. The food drive in my pups is genetic, so I'm not worried about putting out more than they can actually eat. And I'll leave it out there too so theyu have time to come back until everyone is satisfied and then take it away.  Once they are on solid food, they get to scavenge and hunt for food in the yard anyways. That's plenty of drive building there.

 

As for dogs being raised in "packs", dogs are opportunistic animals rather than family packs. Most people really don't have family packs and the hirarchy is forced upon the dogs. I have a family of dogs. My last litter was literally raised within the "pack" of my house. Even the wild dogs here in Amierca form packs out of opportunistic reasons to survive, not because they are a family of dogs. So they hunt together, and then seem to go their separate ways. So the hirarchy system isn't really the same as with wolves.

That being said, personally, mine grow up together too. We've always had our puppies grow up around a wiser and older dog because while being involved in sport, we also had an Equestrian Center.

Right now, I've got my older dog and my youngster and I do let my older dogs teach my youngster the ropes. She's got overall pretty natural obedience. Never even had to teach her a recall, she will walk inside my crutch without ever having to teach it. And that's coming down from her father who is like this too. That natural loyalty and obedience is something that I've always loved out of this particular bloodline.

 

FLATBEDS & TRUCKS

Until something happens and your dog goes flying. I'm as rural and as far up north as you can possibly get and I'm sure as hell not treating my dogs like prissy little princesses but I'm not putting dogs unprotected in a flatbed and let them free ride when there are too many idiots out there cutting you off, driving drunk, and putting others in danger. All it takes is a hit on your break and your very expensive dog goes flying! Not worth the risk. And I transported mine in the flatbed of a truck before, but they were crated and not free riding.

 

MASKS and Covid

Please let's not go down that road. Some of us have personal experience with Covid.






 


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