by ValK on 17 October 2020 - 00:10
hired, it was just simplified example. there can be a myriad situations. i remember video someone provided link to (i think it was Prager) where officer send dog into attack. object didn't run or scream but calmly stood in place and when dog was close he did put his hands behind back. guess what? dog got lost. i don't know exactly what was reason - could be because dog wasn't see the point usual for bite during training, could be dog got an idea that there ball/toy (reward) hidden from him. i don't know. but officer obviously was quite embarrassed by this.
try to send for execution of any command crazy for a ball dog and let someone at the same time throw in front of dog ball and see what will happen.
try to place high prey dog to watch after the herd and do release in close proximity rabbit and tell what happened to a watcher duty of that dog.
same can be done with food, to trick the dog. perhaps even more than with toy rewards.
it's impossible to foresee and train dogs for every possible combinations of events and circumstances. breeding selection have been used to consolidate working dogs (including GSDs) intellect through genetic foundation to particular field of usage and enforcing certain necessary behavioral traits.
my previous dogs, being tolerant and respectful to close members of family didn't obey even basic command to which i trained them. leave alone other people even who was familiar to them.
even the last my dog Siegie, whose intellect and character was no match to previous dogs, being friendly and acceptable to familiar folk, did ignore any command from them. believe me, there nothing to do with machismo. its just dog's innate attitude. i do not even know if that possible to train responsive dog to be refusive to execution of commands from other people. but i absolutely sure - by use food and toy as main stimuli in training won't help to change dog's attitude to others if that dog already genetically responsive.
that what i told in post above - selection and breeding for narrowed purpose. you won't chose aggressive dog to be guide dog or S&R. and you also won't chose friendly dog for guarding purpose.
by Hundmutter on 17 October 2020 - 03:10
by Hired Dog on 17 October 2020 - 05:10
Valk, I can assure you that you could lay under a car, stand still or hang upside down like a fruit bat, if I were to tell any of my dogs to bite you, they would.
Next item Valk, have you ever been to a scene of an accident involving a K-9 car where the officer is unconscious, but the dog is not and emergency personnel are trying to get to that handler?
Guess what happens if they cant because of the dog? If you chose option one, you are correct, the dog will die.
Guess what the first question out the handler's mouth is when he wakes up at the hospital...WHERE IS MY DOG?
All of my dogs that I have gotten have been trained around my family and they have been very accepting of taking basic commands. Does that mean that any member of the family is qualified to handle the dog in a pro capacity, of course not, but, at least that dog wont die because I am not around to get him off of a would be burglar who broke into my house and got bitten.
Next item, it is impossible to think of every situation and have ONE dog try and fit every single situation. It is also true that today, you can kill most police dogs with a ball and a pocket knife, so, you make the best decision about what kind of dog you want with you.
At the other end of the spectrum, there are the lawsuits, the money payed out to people that have gotten bitten, some of the dogs that have lost their lives for biting, etc.
I have always said that the truth is somewhere in the middle, its not black or white, its gray, so, yes, you may be own a bad ass dog, but, that comes at a cost, the same applies to owning not a bad ass dog, you choose carefully, or, if you work for an agency, they will choose for you.
by Hired Dog on 17 October 2020 - 05:10
I am not a fan of it and would never allow my dog to be trained for it and actually do it on the street.
by Hired Dog on 17 October 2020 - 06:10
Here is one of the articles I run into that I spoke of earlier, I will see if I can find the other one.
by Hundmutter on 17 October 2020 - 06:10
Hired I think you need to explain that one a bit more ? 'Not great results' how ? Did the perp run off because the dog had not actually bitten him yet ? Most Police dogs over here would have taken any movement away (or for that matter to lunge forward & attack) as their cue to follow, and bite. But its that very legislative environment to which you refer, and public horror of anyone getting bitten before they've been tried by a jury (!), that means our cops are content with an arrest where the unsub has stood still, waiting to be handcuffed, under a noisy threat of worse to come. That's why it's usually known here as 'Bark and HOLD'.
by Hired Dog on 17 October 2020 - 06:10
A dog is there to minimize the danger a subject poses to other officers on the scene. Some dogs will for sure bite when the subject tries to run, but, how will that dog react if the subject simply raises his gun hand and shoots?
If a person decides to give up before they get bitten, the dog can always be recalled, before it bites, but, for simplicity sake, if you run, if you hide, if you ignore the warnings given, you are taking your own chances on getting hurt.
There are many variables that come into play here and I wont get into each of them, but, for me, I want find and bite.
by GSCat on 17 October 2020 - 07:10
by ali44 on 16 October 2020 - 13:10
Smokin Joe if you feed raw and want a healthy treat for your dog buy yourself a dehydrator (hope I'm saying it right) like the ones used for dehydrated fruits and put small pieces of meat or organs. It would take a few hours to be ready but once dehydrated corectly you can store them for weeks at room temperature, no need for a freezer. Pay attention that the meat is fat free, fat meat won't store so well and will become spoiled pretty quickly. It is also a good idea as an alternative way of feeding your dog while away on vacation with him. Or you can buy dehydrated healthy treats from pet stores. I bought mine dehydrated pieces of beef heart from Zooplus (this is in Europe). Mine are on raw too, but dehydrated meat is something they would die for LOL.
No meat is fat-free. Not even rabbt, venison, elk, bison, veal, etc. So at some time, it will go bad from racidity, regardless of how you treat/prepare it.
Freeze-dried meat will last longer at room temperature and is less messy to handle than dehydrated (freeze-dried meat is dry, while dehydrated still has at least some greasiness, even if well dehydrated). Both freeze-dried and dehydrated should kept in a sealed bag or container for maximum life.
Meat can be freeze-dried at home using a freeze-dryer ($$$$$$$$) or cooler and dry ice (giant PITA and very time consuming). Google for more info on either/both. IMHO, better off purchasing the freeze-dried treats if you decide to go this route.
Meat can be dehydrated in your oven (or dehydrator). If you use your oven, be sure to have ann oven liner thingee on the bottom (disposable or otherwise). Some dehydrators are pretty easy to clean and others are a giant PITA, so choose carefully if you decide to go this way. Some dehydrators have special racks or inserts for meat, and there are add-on racks for added capacity for some models.
by Rik on 17 October 2020 - 08:10
HD, I've been watching a lot of Live PD during the shutdown so I'm practically expert on this subject. :) just kidding.
I do notice a couple of things though,
1. a lot of suspects give up when they realize the dog is going to be loosed.
2. very few times does the handler just unleash the dog to pursue the suspect off into the wild. it's been quite a few years, but a dog in my town was killed by 2 guys who far out distanced the officers but not the dog. they were never caught.
in the end though, besides the nose work etc., it seems the dog's job is preserving the safety of the LE as well as being less lethal than a bullet.
oh, just to keep the subject on track, almost always the dog gets a healthy treat at the end.
by Hundmutter on 17 October 2020 - 09:10