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by dingaling on 07 May 2010 - 08:05
I personally find these dogs quite foul myself,what the hell are you doing to our breed ?!!!!!!!!!!!!Puppy farmer screams out to me when i visited your site,how many litters do you have on the ground at any one time,omg !!!what i would like to know though is this,the breeder who has brought in livers to this country from the above breeder,you have put your bitch in whelp knowing she has shot hips,they were that bad that the plates were not sent in to the bva,what the hell are you thinking of,this is the "breeder"
http://www.gurneysgsd.co.uk/by bazza on 07 May 2010 - 08:05
But that's okay, their breeding fancy coloured puppy's for the pet/companion market, so what's the problem? Sick greedy individuals.
by dingaling on 07 May 2010 - 08:05
Well its the poor puppy owners Bazza that suffer yet again.Ive been doing a bit of homework on this gurneys,seems she has 2 litters due,one being an accident,dont you seperate your dogs and bitches then when in season ?
http://www.champdogs.co.uk/puppy/17442.htmlThough not a planned litter Zeb and Rio took it upon themselves to repeat the mateing from last year!
by Jyotisdad on 07 May 2010 - 09:05
Well, it looks like most of you agree with me then.
All dogs are mutations like it or lump it.
Have anice day
All dogs are mutations like it or lump it.
Have anice day
by Dingodog on 07 May 2010 - 15:05
If ever there was an argument for scrapping pedigree dogs althogether, this idea of culling colours has to be it. There never has and never will be an excuse for not placing 'off' colours into pet homes, rather than killing them. What the hell kind of person finds that acceptable?
To whoever it was posted about changing the breed standard. Yes, the SV can do it to suit themselves, and also interpret it quite freely according to what they have in the ring at the time - witness the current showline shape - that's what I would call ruination of the breed. For many years now, the showline have been breeding for colour - black and red. Keep narrowing the gene pool hey?. The laughable thing is if the SV told everyone that blues, livers and whites were now standard (and they started to win in competition) showline diehards would all be busting a gut to add them to their kennel, especially if they achieved Sieger titles. I would love to see them retain their 'colour' principles then.
Malcolm Willis in a recent article in the BC magazine said and I quote
" There is a need to look at 'so-called' disqualifying features, notably colour, for example whites, livers and blues. A more thoughtful approach would be to consider and include them"
Heck, that's good enough for me. This from probably the top geneticist in the history of the breed. Why do you think he said this (and wrote a letter to the UK Kennel Club about it?). Be interested to hear anyone's view of his statement.
So long as they have correct conformation (not overangulated and curved spine), and had all health tests, what would be the problem if they were accepted into the standard (I'm not talking about these latest dogs, as I don't know whether they are genetically GSD's, or the panda shepherds). There would lose the scarcity value placed on them at the moment. Health and conformation wise, In recent years I have noticed some very nice conformation appearing in the longcoats for example, and more and more who produce LC and colours do seem to be doing health testing.
Colour in itself we know is not a particular problem, particularly in GSDs. Careful attention needs to be paid to the lines behind them, but that is the case with any lines. We know particularly of german lines carrying epilepsy among other things. The problem with Germany appears to have always been the habit of concealing what is happening there health wise. They are very reluctant to admit that German dogs have any health problems, or that lines carry any defects.
I agree with the term 'cookie cutter' dogs, as you would be hard pressed to tell one from another in the showing, and the sex characteristics seem to be becoming less defined. I really think the GSD needs all the diversity it can get, with the right precautions.
To whoever it was posted about changing the breed standard. Yes, the SV can do it to suit themselves, and also interpret it quite freely according to what they have in the ring at the time - witness the current showline shape - that's what I would call ruination of the breed. For many years now, the showline have been breeding for colour - black and red. Keep narrowing the gene pool hey?. The laughable thing is if the SV told everyone that blues, livers and whites were now standard (and they started to win in competition) showline diehards would all be busting a gut to add them to their kennel, especially if they achieved Sieger titles. I would love to see them retain their 'colour' principles then.
Malcolm Willis in a recent article in the BC magazine said and I quote
" There is a need to look at 'so-called' disqualifying features, notably colour, for example whites, livers and blues. A more thoughtful approach would be to consider and include them"
Heck, that's good enough for me. This from probably the top geneticist in the history of the breed. Why do you think he said this (and wrote a letter to the UK Kennel Club about it?). Be interested to hear anyone's view of his statement.
So long as they have correct conformation (not overangulated and curved spine), and had all health tests, what would be the problem if they were accepted into the standard (I'm not talking about these latest dogs, as I don't know whether they are genetically GSD's, or the panda shepherds). There would lose the scarcity value placed on them at the moment. Health and conformation wise, In recent years I have noticed some very nice conformation appearing in the longcoats for example, and more and more who produce LC and colours do seem to be doing health testing.
Colour in itself we know is not a particular problem, particularly in GSDs. Careful attention needs to be paid to the lines behind them, but that is the case with any lines. We know particularly of german lines carrying epilepsy among other things. The problem with Germany appears to have always been the habit of concealing what is happening there health wise. They are very reluctant to admit that German dogs have any health problems, or that lines carry any defects.
I agree with the term 'cookie cutter' dogs, as you would be hard pressed to tell one from another in the showing, and the sex characteristics seem to be becoming less defined. I really think the GSD needs all the diversity it can get, with the right precautions.
by Pridhams on 07 May 2010 - 15:05
I expect many of you have already read this file, but for those who are still undecided whether dilutes are completely unacceptable as GSDs, (regardless of their non-conformity to colour as stated in the breed standard), the following may be of some interest:
http://www.ddhc.de/farbgenetikDSH/Dilute%20color%20carriers.pdf
I would never expect the purists to acknowledge that colour and coat pattern should be anything other than adhering to the breed standard, and to some extent I do empathise. These are difficult times for the GSD.
Nevertheless, it is clear that derivations do occur. These dogs are still as legitimate as their parents.
It is also patently obvious that there are a few people who celebrate this diversity of colour.
Rightly or wrongly, in a democratic world, one has the right, if they wish, to promote a diverse colour. I do strongly uphold the duty of care on any breeder to screen any potential breeding stock and their close relatives for any genetic problems which currently afflict GSDs. My stand on this is as firm, and as fair, whether breeding for breed standard or for colour diversity.
The two though, aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Many conventionally coloured dogs do not conform to BS, equally so, there appear to be many diverse colours which have typical GS conformation and have a wonderful GS presence.
There may or may not be problems associated with breeding for colour. Time will tell.
Responsible breeding in any sphere is paramount, but breeding any animal is not cheap, and it will never prove to be a 'cash cow' for those embarking on a breeding programme. Producing healthy stock is essential, and colour diverse dogs will be ineligible for showing - the BS is unlikely to change to accommodate these dogs.
The conventional breeders have nothing to fear from the people who celebrate diverse colours in the GSD.
http://www.ddhc.de/farbgenetikDSH/Dilute%20color%20carriers.pdf
I would never expect the purists to acknowledge that colour and coat pattern should be anything other than adhering to the breed standard, and to some extent I do empathise. These are difficult times for the GSD.
Nevertheless, it is clear that derivations do occur. These dogs are still as legitimate as their parents.
It is also patently obvious that there are a few people who celebrate this diversity of colour.
Rightly or wrongly, in a democratic world, one has the right, if they wish, to promote a diverse colour. I do strongly uphold the duty of care on any breeder to screen any potential breeding stock and their close relatives for any genetic problems which currently afflict GSDs. My stand on this is as firm, and as fair, whether breeding for breed standard or for colour diversity.
The two though, aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Many conventionally coloured dogs do not conform to BS, equally so, there appear to be many diverse colours which have typical GS conformation and have a wonderful GS presence.
There may or may not be problems associated with breeding for colour. Time will tell.
Responsible breeding in any sphere is paramount, but breeding any animal is not cheap, and it will never prove to be a 'cash cow' for those embarking on a breeding programme. Producing healthy stock is essential, and colour diverse dogs will be ineligible for showing - the BS is unlikely to change to accommodate these dogs.
The conventional breeders have nothing to fear from the people who celebrate diverse colours in the GSD.
by Dingodog on 07 May 2010 - 15:05
Pridhams
Well put. I don't necessarily agree that the BS is unlikely to change to accommodate these dogs (in the UK), as MW has more or less suggested that it should be! That would be interesting.
Well put. I don't necessarily agree that the BS is unlikely to change to accommodate these dogs (in the UK), as MW has more or less suggested that it should be! That would be interesting.
by bazza on 07 May 2010 - 18:05
You Dingodog are really not worth replying to but I have a few seconds with nothing better to do. Try reading what this thread was about, a breeder who does nothing else BUT breed for colour, and as has been previously stated, at the moment non STANDARD colours.
I was the one who said about changing the breed standard, and there is no way the SV changed the standard to accommodate 1 blue dog who happened to win at an all breed show, under an all breed judge, who subsequently went on to buy said dog!! I would also like to know where you have been if you are ONLY NOTICING nice conformation in long coats, there always has been!!!!! As I said about you before a PROFESSIONAL HECKLER!!!!
Forgot to add in the UK under the kennel club ANYTHING GOES AS LONG AS IT'S BREATHING, that too could change, who knows, just pay your fees, nothing else matters, lol.
I was the one who said about changing the breed standard, and there is no way the SV changed the standard to accommodate 1 blue dog who happened to win at an all breed show, under an all breed judge, who subsequently went on to buy said dog!! I would also like to know where you have been if you are ONLY NOTICING nice conformation in long coats, there always has been!!!!! As I said about you before a PROFESSIONAL HECKLER!!!!
Forgot to add in the UK under the kennel club ANYTHING GOES AS LONG AS IT'S BREATHING, that too could change, who knows, just pay your fees, nothing else matters, lol.
by apoArmani on 07 May 2010 - 19:05
In many third world countries and indeed pounds/dog shelters/RSPCA etc (of developed countries) you can pick up one of these 'babies' for free!! And one would be doing the street dog crises a favour!
by Nellie on 07 May 2010 - 20:05
,Breed standards are there for a reason, and if not followed you might as well go to the local pound and collect the mutt of non discript breeding, because at the end of the day that is all you will be left with if the standards are not adhered to, what next the long narrow collie head will be argued for by the same persons, if you don't like the standard then change the breed Working collies and Aussies cater for the colours of the rainbow
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