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by conmaira gsd on 07 November 2012 - 20:11
Hundmutter
Well said
Well said
by Abby Normal on 07 November 2012 - 21:11
Blackfurbabe
Doing some research on K Kalypso it brings up her siblings.
Nowhere have I suggested that Krakenedge dogs have produced epilepsy, and because I haven't looked into the lines, I couldn't possibly comment. Are the pedigrees anywhere of the dogs so that anyone can see what is in the lines?
Feel free to correct facts with further information. My mistake, it wasn't a Krakenedge website, it was another site that came up with a sibling to Krakenedge Kalypso, that happened to be another Krakenedge liver dog.
I was referring to the hip status of K.Kalypso, and we all know who owns her. Why is it so hard to find actual 'information' on these various linked websites? I can go to other reputable breeder sites and know who the breeders are, the dogs pedigree names, and a link to the pedigrees, their accomplishments (if any) their health tests, DOB etc etc. I merely found the statement about puppies finding their way to coloured breeders hugely ironic, given the circumstances of this thread.
Meanwhile, while doing some research on the dam, I came across something extraordinarily interesting. There are more twists and turns than Corrie with this (original) breeder
BTW Hundmutter, according to that website I wasn't looking at liver isn't a dilute gene. Just so you know.
"it does not dilute black pigment in the hair it blocks it from forming"
Doing some research on K Kalypso it brings up her siblings.
Nowhere have I suggested that Krakenedge dogs have produced epilepsy, and because I haven't looked into the lines, I couldn't possibly comment. Are the pedigrees anywhere of the dogs so that anyone can see what is in the lines?
Feel free to correct facts with further information. My mistake, it wasn't a Krakenedge website, it was another site that came up with a sibling to Krakenedge Kalypso, that happened to be another Krakenedge liver dog.
I was referring to the hip status of K.Kalypso, and we all know who owns her. Why is it so hard to find actual 'information' on these various linked websites? I can go to other reputable breeder sites and know who the breeders are, the dogs pedigree names, and a link to the pedigrees, their accomplishments (if any) their health tests, DOB etc etc. I merely found the statement about puppies finding their way to coloured breeders hugely ironic, given the circumstances of this thread.
Meanwhile, while doing some research on the dam, I came across something extraordinarily interesting. There are more twists and turns than Corrie with this (original) breeder
BTW Hundmutter, according to that website I wasn't looking at liver isn't a dilute gene. Just so you know.
"it does not dilute black pigment in the hair it blocks it from forming"
by fawndallas on 07 November 2012 - 21:11
So is "liver" or "chocolate" a valid GSD color? A number of years ago, I looked at a GSD litter and there was what I would call Liver color. I thought it was very odd and passed on the litter. At the time though, I did not know that even tri-colored GSDs existed.
by firefly on 07 November 2012 - 22:11
http://germanshepherddog.com/regulations/breed_standard.htm
by fawndallas on 08 November 2012 - 14:11
Perfect. Thank you Firefly (love the name)
by Abby Normal on 17 November 2012 - 00:11
Updates to website with hipscores made, details of epilepsy. Tragic reading, this breeder is now 'outing' all the hipscores - of which there are really very few, including the dogs that have needed hip replacements !!!
It is worth noting that many of the hipscores have been done by others, and even then it is a handful of dogs,and yet this breeder says she hipscores 'unlike other breeders who do not score'. I am baffled. Maybe she just doesn't understand the meaning of hip scoring, or she is completely deluded or is a blatant liar. Can't figure out which. The last litter registered this year (not the chocolate) was to unscored parents. I havent got the Breed supplements to look prior to that, as I threw mine out recently, but I know what I would find. This breeder routinely breeds from untested stock, so why does she say otherwise? Does she think because an occasional dog is tested that she can use the term and hope that her 'punters' believe she tests all her dogs? The trouble is no matter what the score is, she will breed from it anyway.
I am unsurprised to learn that the import Mr Copperbottom, is in the pedigree. He is the grandfather. There was some consternation originally when he was bred, because his score was in the high 30's. So this dog she has the 'chocolate' litter from has the grandfather with a high hipscore, and the dam with a super high hipscore of 74. I think she can look forward to adding more dogs with hip replacements to her page in the future. How sad for these puppies and their future owners (I see the price has dropped). Who in their right mind and with any conscience at all would consider risking giving them this kind of handicap for the sake of money?
She then goes on to say that she has improved her hips over time. What a load of bull. So few dogs scored gives no picture at all and some with hideous scores. She also blames others mostly for the bad scores. She bemoans someone 'ruining' one dog that was a blue bicolour, because it was such an important colour. Not worried about the poor dog, just that she lost that colour. The update to the website really shows this *breeder* for what she is. I know she is trying to make herself out to be a 'good guy' but she is so far from that as it is possible to be, and it shows. Yet she is unable to find any justification for breeding Krakenedge Kalypso. Even she cannot come up with anything to make that seem right. I bet she spent hours trying to find a way, and even began, but then retracted any statement about it.
She says :those of you who condemn the litters of higher than everage hip scored parents, at least those breeders like myself know what they have to work with to improve for the future'. Carole Brooks - NO - how it works is that if you have a dog that is not breedworthy (ie has bad hips) you withdraw it from any breeding programme. SIMPLE. You don't HAVE to breed it, you SHOULDN'T EVER BREED IT. You start afresh with a healthy dog. You suffer the disappointment that a dog you wanted to breed from isn't suitable, it happens. You don't breed unhealthy dogs and produce unhealthy puppies to pass on to people. AND you test ALL breeding stock, that means hip scoring ALL your dogs. The only people that do what you do are back yard breeders who are only in it for the money. It is pitiful. At least be honest about it...............you don't hip score most of your dogs that you breed from!
And the biggest insult of all is to suggest that Malcolm Willis encouraged you to start your breeding programme with a pet quality dog with poor hips, that were unscored.
Read it and weep people.
It is worth noting that many of the hipscores have been done by others, and even then it is a handful of dogs,and yet this breeder says she hipscores 'unlike other breeders who do not score'. I am baffled. Maybe she just doesn't understand the meaning of hip scoring, or she is completely deluded or is a blatant liar. Can't figure out which. The last litter registered this year (not the chocolate) was to unscored parents. I havent got the Breed supplements to look prior to that, as I threw mine out recently, but I know what I would find. This breeder routinely breeds from untested stock, so why does she say otherwise? Does she think because an occasional dog is tested that she can use the term and hope that her 'punters' believe she tests all her dogs? The trouble is no matter what the score is, she will breed from it anyway.
I am unsurprised to learn that the import Mr Copperbottom, is in the pedigree. He is the grandfather. There was some consternation originally when he was bred, because his score was in the high 30's. So this dog she has the 'chocolate' litter from has the grandfather with a high hipscore, and the dam with a super high hipscore of 74. I think she can look forward to adding more dogs with hip replacements to her page in the future. How sad for these puppies and their future owners (I see the price has dropped). Who in their right mind and with any conscience at all would consider risking giving them this kind of handicap for the sake of money?
She then goes on to say that she has improved her hips over time. What a load of bull. So few dogs scored gives no picture at all and some with hideous scores. She also blames others mostly for the bad scores. She bemoans someone 'ruining' one dog that was a blue bicolour, because it was such an important colour. Not worried about the poor dog, just that she lost that colour. The update to the website really shows this *breeder* for what she is. I know she is trying to make herself out to be a 'good guy' but she is so far from that as it is possible to be, and it shows. Yet she is unable to find any justification for breeding Krakenedge Kalypso. Even she cannot come up with anything to make that seem right. I bet she spent hours trying to find a way, and even began, but then retracted any statement about it.
She says :those of you who condemn the litters of higher than everage hip scored parents, at least those breeders like myself know what they have to work with to improve for the future'. Carole Brooks - NO - how it works is that if you have a dog that is not breedworthy (ie has bad hips) you withdraw it from any breeding programme. SIMPLE. You don't HAVE to breed it, you SHOULDN'T EVER BREED IT. You start afresh with a healthy dog. You suffer the disappointment that a dog you wanted to breed from isn't suitable, it happens. You don't breed unhealthy dogs and produce unhealthy puppies to pass on to people. AND you test ALL breeding stock, that means hip scoring ALL your dogs. The only people that do what you do are back yard breeders who are only in it for the money. It is pitiful. At least be honest about it...............you don't hip score most of your dogs that you breed from!
And the biggest insult of all is to suggest that Malcolm Willis encouraged you to start your breeding programme with a pet quality dog with poor hips, that were unscored.
Read it and weep people.
by Hundmutter on 17 November 2012 - 03:11
Already had; agree with you. [I didn't like the reference to Malcolm Willis either, but didn't read it
quite that way ( I thought she was talking about a bitch she HAD scored but it was too high, so I can
imagine he might have given her a cautious 'ok' on it if she'd told him it was otherwise a quality bitch -
i.e. lied over the phone ) but having re-read it, it is ambiguous.]
Not only are you right about both parents of the summer litter being unscored (at least as far
as the BVA and KC are involved) but I do have the relevant BRS and guess what ? One of
the parents has a scored sire, but the other doesn't (Parisian Ice). No surprises there, then.
I didn't really 'get' the reference to her "friend" ruining the blue bi, as other pages show she
is now producing that colour anyway. Makes me laugh about her reference to her "friends"
and what they have or haven't done wrong with breeding from dogs they've had off her, as she is
also keen to tell us she does not breed for other people to breed with, has only sold 4 pups as
potential breeding stock in x years, and so on.
'Give me strength' !!!
quite that way ( I thought she was talking about a bitch she HAD scored but it was too high, so I can
imagine he might have given her a cautious 'ok' on it if she'd told him it was otherwise a quality bitch -
i.e. lied over the phone ) but having re-read it, it is ambiguous.]
Not only are you right about both parents of the summer litter being unscored (at least as far
as the BVA and KC are involved) but I do have the relevant BRS and guess what ? One of
the parents has a scored sire, but the other doesn't (Parisian Ice). No surprises there, then.
I didn't really 'get' the reference to her "friend" ruining the blue bi, as other pages show she
is now producing that colour anyway. Makes me laugh about her reference to her "friends"
and what they have or haven't done wrong with breeding from dogs they've had off her, as she is
also keen to tell us she does not breed for other people to breed with, has only sold 4 pups as
potential breeding stock in x years, and so on.
'Give me strength' !!!
by Abby Normal on 17 November 2012 - 09:11
I am so frustrated that people like hisblue believe that this woman health tests all her dogs. I keep wondering what 'research' they did?
Reading her statement 'unlike others who do not score' - those who lack knowledge may believe it to be true and look no further, this is clearly what she relies on. She clearly lies to the people who buy her dogs. I can't help wondering what she is telling people who are going to buy the 'chocolate' puppies. I guess by advertising them in the free ads she hopes that hips won't even be discussed. If she gets any enquiries from people who do ask about hip scores what is she going to say? Poor pups. And people believe she does it 'for the dogs'. Think again. She did at one point revoke her statement about the dog bthat was supposedly a police sniffer dog and admit that he had never been an active police dog at all. I think she's taken that off again now. I can't keep up with the changes. Maybe that was too much of an example of what a liar she is and she thought better of it.
CB - I know that you are reading this. If you are as 'genuine' as you are desperately trying to portray yourself, instead of changing the website about hipscores and blaming everyone but yourself how about this;
1) Have a webpage for each of your dogs. On that page show the details of that dogs health tests Hip Score and full pedigree.
2) On your puppies page detail planned litters/current litters with details of who the parents are. When the sire is not a dog owned by you, also show his full pedigree on that page, together with his health tests (hip score) BTW, Elbow scores would be good too you know, but hip scores at the minimum.
This will show that you are using hip scored dogs as you currently claim, but which as we see is not the case. Secondly it will show that you are not using dogs with suspected epilepsy in the lines as you claim. However, you would need to use hip scores as they were intended and NOT breed to dogs which had a higher than recommended score. These are basic principles of dog breeding, which in over 10 years you do not appear to have been able to master. You have been quite willing to sell off dogs that you haven't wanted, historical free ads prove that, so removing a dog that is not suitable from your breeding programme is not beyond you. In fact, now the KC has introduced a further limitation on litters I imagine we will see you selling off more dogs more frequently once they have produced as many litters as they are allowed to.
If you do all this you won't need a bad press page, or need to be putting up the nonsense that you currently have on your website, IF what you are saying about your lines is true and you do adhere to using health tested dogs as any REPUTABLE breeder does. Have a look at the webpages of some of the reputable breeders and you will get the gist of it.
Reading her statement 'unlike others who do not score' - those who lack knowledge may believe it to be true and look no further, this is clearly what she relies on. She clearly lies to the people who buy her dogs. I can't help wondering what she is telling people who are going to buy the 'chocolate' puppies. I guess by advertising them in the free ads she hopes that hips won't even be discussed. If she gets any enquiries from people who do ask about hip scores what is she going to say? Poor pups. And people believe she does it 'for the dogs'. Think again. She did at one point revoke her statement about the dog bthat was supposedly a police sniffer dog and admit that he had never been an active police dog at all. I think she's taken that off again now. I can't keep up with the changes. Maybe that was too much of an example of what a liar she is and she thought better of it.
CB - I know that you are reading this. If you are as 'genuine' as you are desperately trying to portray yourself, instead of changing the website about hipscores and blaming everyone but yourself how about this;
1) Have a webpage for each of your dogs. On that page show the details of that dogs health tests Hip Score and full pedigree.
2) On your puppies page detail planned litters/current litters with details of who the parents are. When the sire is not a dog owned by you, also show his full pedigree on that page, together with his health tests (hip score) BTW, Elbow scores would be good too you know, but hip scores at the minimum.
This will show that you are using hip scored dogs as you currently claim, but which as we see is not the case. Secondly it will show that you are not using dogs with suspected epilepsy in the lines as you claim. However, you would need to use hip scores as they were intended and NOT breed to dogs which had a higher than recommended score. These are basic principles of dog breeding, which in over 10 years you do not appear to have been able to master. You have been quite willing to sell off dogs that you haven't wanted, historical free ads prove that, so removing a dog that is not suitable from your breeding programme is not beyond you. In fact, now the KC has introduced a further limitation on litters I imagine we will see you selling off more dogs more frequently once they have produced as many litters as they are allowed to.
If you do all this you won't need a bad press page, or need to be putting up the nonsense that you currently have on your website, IF what you are saying about your lines is true and you do adhere to using health tested dogs as any REPUTABLE breeder does. Have a look at the webpages of some of the reputable breeders and you will get the gist of it.
by allanf on 17 November 2012 - 10:11
Abby
I'm afraid this entire thread is too convoluted for me to follow. Are you talking about HD/ED or Epilepsy, or both? I think both, which makes it a little bit more confusing. More importantly, what dogs, what lines?
Can you please provide some links or references to what you are talking about, because, without them, I (as a humble reader of this public forum) have absolutely no idea. LOL.
Ideally, there should be entries for the dogs in question in the PedigreeDatabase with ED/HD scores and some acknowledgement of Epilesy (perhaps in the "comments" if nowhere else suitable).
I'm afraid this entire thread is too convoluted for me to follow. Are you talking about HD/ED or Epilepsy, or both? I think both, which makes it a little bit more confusing. More importantly, what dogs, what lines?
Can you please provide some links or references to what you are talking about, because, without them, I (as a humble reader of this public forum) have absolutely no idea. LOL.
Ideally, there should be entries for the dogs in question in the PedigreeDatabase with ED/HD scores and some acknowledgement of Epilesy (perhaps in the "comments" if nowhere else suitable).
by blackfurbabe on 17 November 2012 - 21:11
From what i can gather from this thread is that- once upon a time some friends who all bred dogs in one way or another had a falling out,the row spread over onto this board,the same people prolonged various related threads gathering hunters along the way with gossip lots of bs and a few facts where it suits them,eagerly providing light entertainment for the masses about someone and their dogs who do not visit this forum or any other forum and has never put the pedigrees of the dogs they own on this database.
Is it time for bedtime and hot chocolate yet!
Is it time for bedtime and hot chocolate yet!
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