List the TEN top breeders. From people with character and good standing on this forum. - Page 15

Yes pod  hybrid vigor is increased by outcrossing ONLY after you have already identified and eradicated bad genes within a closed bloodline with common ancestors. This is how you get haplotypes to determine aetiological immunities, they have to be in a heterozygous state for genetic activity.

Exactley what i was thinking Eagle.

For integrity, honour, and quality...

Bill Kulla & Jennifer Acevedo. http://www.kulladogs.com/
Robin Huerta. http://teamhuertahof.com/

It would be an impossible task to eradicate all bad genes from a population and in attempting to do so, you eradicate good genes and diminish diversity.  This sort of purging may happen in wild populations where circumstances demand such extreme measures and this one route to survival remains but there you have rigorous selection and natural culling of the less fit.  The increased homozygosity means animals born with defects become more frequent and the population less fit as a results of losing heterozygote advantage.  Surely not the way we should be breeding dogs, or any domesticated species.

The belief that breeds/species should be 'cleansed of bad genes' is becoming increasingly defunct as we discover more about gene action - pleiotropy - many (most?) genes do not act in isolation and are not limited to sinlge expression.  The captive breeding of endangered species has worked on the principle of preserving diversity for some time.  The breeding of domesticated species is getting there too.

Your post right above mine, is  on the mark, Pod. 

The need for genetic diversity is exactly why AKC allowed infusion of new blood directly from an indigenous African population of the Basenji within a very recent time.

You are not going to eliminate missing testicles, HD, LC, certain colors, etc; and the breed remain as it was meant to be. ...period!  Many old time breeders understand the dynamics of the fact that some of the negative aspects of the breed(to some),were actually dominant characteristics of the founding dogs that created this breed. But alas breeders today often don't need to know historical facts to shape breeding goals and expectations, they have newly created safeguards that allow them to mix any two dogs together(with these safeguards) and they are reputable and right!  Unfortunately, the expected result of the eradication of these negatives by these devices, or the strengthening of the breed by these devices, have not blossomed; or else we wouldn't have so many threads on health and temperament issues. I really can't understand the disconnect, because I KNOW , our current ways of breeding are superior. I'll figure it out one day.

* "The increased homozygosity means animals born with defects become more frequent and the population less fit as a results of losing heterozygote advantage." *

ONLY if you have NOT identified bad genes with common ancestors. Who breeding doesn't want to find bad genes ? When I say bad genes, I mean bad genes and undesirables because people breed for different reasons (I breed for health because I eat meat). IE: stress (resistance), colors, bandwidth, rufus, pullets, horns, scurs, muscle volume/mass, meat 2 bone ratio, speed, endurance - whateva your desired traits are.

Now granted, breeding for meat, I'm not limited to angus x angus or Flemish x Flemish or RIRed x RIRed - I have some wiggle room and I use it based on genetics only. Like the Tibetan Yak for example - the Yak used for meat has been a common ancestor bloodline for so long with the intent to produce a parasite free or resistant bloodline. It happened and there's cattle bloodlines out there on the meat market that go as high as 150,000.00 at auction in a homozygous state. To get one of those used to be a rarity in the US, not anymore. More and more people are becoming aware of the complexisity of DNA - you don't have to be a scientist to produce what you want. You just need to understand some basic genetics.

Horns, on cattle and or buffalo is a great example. How did horns disappear or appear ? Because the polled gene is dominant to the horned gene while the horned gene is just the absence of a polled gene. Confusing huh ? Not really when you know what your breeding for. Cattle with 1 polled gene are hornless but have scurs Sc (scurs is more complex because they are based on sex and incomplete penetrance). That means they are heterozygous polled. When the heterozygous is bred to a horned WE KNOW 50% of offspring will have horns. If heterozygous is bred to heterozygous WE KNOW 75% will be polled with 25% homozygous polled, 50% heterozygous polled and 25% will have horns. Homozygous polled (x homozygous polled) = no horns offspring 100% of the time. Cattle with horns don't have polled genes so if you breed (phenotype) horned x horned  you will get horned offspring 100% of the time. WE KNOW cattle with 1 horn that do not show a scur they ARE homozygous polled. If you see it (phenotype) it's there. ALL cattle produced by cattle showing (phenotype) scurs carry scurs to all offspring 100% of the time. The only way to change that is to breed to a homozygous bull. The only way to set resistant (genetic health) by haplotypes in a homozygous bull is by common ancestors and it takes 3 - 8+ generations to get that resistance - ONLY after you identified the bad genes can you move on to different loci like the polled, horned, scurs etc. Who wants to breed bad health before phenotype (looks, color, body type or yes even horns on cattle ?

Same with color loci and banding - charlie x charlie produce 100% charlie 100% of the time. Someone, somewhere created this out of a closed common ancestor bloodline.

Sooo, if you care to know what I think. People need to STOP breeding BAD GENES !!!! Most these health issues in the dogs ARE directly related to how YOU are breeding and the lack of know how. YOU are breeding missing testicles !!!!

But whateva, this isn't worth my time anymore. I never bred or plan to breed a dog.    I've found a "reputable breeder" ... and they did a fabulous job with know how. I'm sorry this thread went way off topic, but I'm glad I was allowed to say what I said.

And YES, some people go much further when selecting a "reputable breeder" much further than phenotypes, titles and promoted "reputable" status breeders.

babyEagle:
             Many genes are linked, so when you breed for removing a gene defect, you will remove all the other linked genes (traits).

"Sooo, if you care to know what I think. People need to STOP breeding BAD GENES !!!! Most these health issues in the dogs ARE directly related to how YOU are breeding and the lack of know how. YOU are breeding missing testicles !!!!"

Linked genes people! linked genes.. not just many but a butt load!
I rather breed a missing testicle than two testicles without any substance in another/more trait. One thing is to breed away and another is to pretend that this can be done without potentially loosing a LOT of other "things".






Looks like we posted together!