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by Sue B on 18 April 2010 - 05:04
Bet you wake up and smell coffee in a morning only to find it tastes like tea, FEAR has a habit of giving you funny tastes in your mouth, it must be very confusing. 
When I am not too busy laughing
, my heart breaks for you. 
Regards
Sue b
by Dingodog on 18 April 2010 - 09:04
Never addressing the issue, never taking time to counter argue the points in question, but always taking the time to be unpleasant. Yes of course I know what the judge is looking for (did it make you feel good mentioning testicles and vagina's DP?). Fact is, unsoundness is there and judges do not always penalise the dog because of it.
As a Judge I have always judged every exhibit for soundness away & back, and occassionally I have penalised this fault when I considered it necessary.
You have made statements to the effect that 'unsoundness has always been in the breed'. Now I know you're getting on a bit, but I would say that you weren't actually in Germany to see and judge the dogs of the 30's 40's and 50's. Looking at their angulation at the time, it is quite possible that they were sound. You don't know, and I don't know, but ask an anatomist which is likely to be the more sound from the comparitive constructions. It's a matter of biomechanics, not opinion.
It is interesting to consider what the article says, and not have the usual closed mind attitude. I do not say the article is correct, I say IMO. I am assuming that the OP was expecting some comments, I gave mine whether you like them or not.
by Videx on 18 April 2010 - 11:04
Of course rear over-angulation may contribute to loose hocks, as can ligaments, muscles, proportions etc.
Alsatians also have hindquarter unsoundness problems, and even more unsoundness in their "minds".
Medium rear angles are NO guarantee of "soundness".
by NO FEAR on 18 April 2010 - 12:04
Dont kid yourself & others ! Make no mistake about it , these shows will be fixed ! The German reject dogs WILL win & those with the money to buy success will dictate
by Dingodog on 18 April 2010 - 14:04
David, if you think I am a professional pest, why don't you just save your energy and not bother responding to me. We will both be happier for it.
by Blanik on 19 April 2010 - 11:04
by Mackenzie on 19 April 2010 - 16:04
The comments attributed to Thelma Gray were written probably befor 1970. For those who do not know Thelma Gray was a successful breeder under the affix of Rozavel. Probably the best known dog from her was Archduke of Rozavel. In those days everyone was an Alsatianist. The question of unsoundness in those days was taken more seriously that today, although HD was not.
Unsoundness in the UK began in a big way with Donzarras Erla. She was by far the most unsound animal that I have seen. Her unsoundness was forgiven because she had good hips. What a load of tosh! As we know now good hips are essential, however, unsoundness comes from what is happening below the hip. Anyone who goes with the good hip excuse does not matter does not understand the locomotion of the GSD. Because of this feeble excuse breeders ignored the matter of soundness and the results are still being seen today. Unsoundness has become accepted as the norm for many and, with the inbreed that we have now it will not be something resolved overnight. When Thelma Gray made her observations the dogs were not as athletic as they are today and unsoundness was more due to the lack of exercise than the breeding. The far reaching dogs that we see today are able to achieve this through rapid movement rather than the trotting action of a sheepdog and while it is spectacular it is not correct. Why? Simply because a dog cannot maintain the same pace throughout a working day. One time when I was the ringhelper for Reinhardt Meyer he kept asking in every class for the dogs to slow down so that he could assess them properly. Another time when I was in Germany I was talking to a well known judge and breeder and I asked him why he had no dog at the Sieger show, his reply was "when I want to see dogs racing I will buy a greyhound".
For those who do not think soundness is important please ask Karl Fuller, or, someone else working a dog all day just how important it is. You will learn something.
Unsoundness today is caused by those who accept that as long as the hips are ok unsoundess does not matter, poor selection when mating and, acceptance of the fault in the first place.
Mackenzie
by Dingodog on 20 April 2010 - 10:04
I couldn't agree more.
I found the comments of Rheinhardt Meyer extremely interesting too. You have effectively answered my question does a working dog need a floating gait - and the answer is no. This gait and pace would not be useful to a working/herding dog, because, as you say it is a pace which cannot be maintained, and takes a lot of energy. Certainly it is not likely that any dog would select this gait and pace to do his job. So the angulation designed to increase the reach in the gait has been 'over-developed' for what purpose? You are right, it may be spectacular (to some) but it is not correct.
by Member on 20 April 2010 - 11:04
John Ward
by Sue B on 20 April 2010 - 12:04
Regards
Sue b
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