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by jaymesie51 on 22 February 2011 - 19:02
Arbeiter,this has nothing to do with the KC i can see where you are coming from, but this time it is the wrong road, this was done before the BRG was even thought of,but it does need to be dropped as it carries the KC banner, and most people did not know about its inclusion into the breed survey.
jim h
jim h
by Videx on 22 February 2011 - 19:02
It certainly smells of some degree of "back door politics" to me. The Breed Council Secretary along with the GSD Breed Council "Kennel Club liaison officer" and a certain cretin from BAGSD (Kennel Club Member) whom the Breed Council Secretary thinks the sun shines out of his backside. This coupled with a few well chosen allies on the Breed Council, who will most likely have had their ego's well and truly massaged,. add to this a few of the "noddy's" on the Breed Council, you know those who second motions following a debate, which they never contributed anything, but like their names in the minutes. This would certainly influence the GSD Breed Councils ludicrous decision.
by jaymesie51 on 22 February 2011 - 21:02
There would be nothing to stop our BRG from starting their own surveys just the same as the BC ones but without the silly citizens bronze thingy,still cant see where the back door politics comes into this as i said this was decided on before the WUSV-BRG had even been thought up.
jim h
jim h
by Videx on 23 February 2011 - 09:02
On what date did the GSD Breed Council AGREE to introduce the KC Good Citizens Bronze award into the GSD Breed Survey?
by grottyrotty on 23 February 2011 - 10:02
Is it too much to ask that a g sd should have some sought of working qualification before it can be breed surveyed?
by Abby Normal on 23 February 2011 - 10:02
Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the KC GC Bronze was introduced to be the counterpart to the 'BH' test, but a British equivalent.
If there is no place for the KC GC, why not draft a british 'BH' test? A breed survey must have something representative of the BH. In any case, the decision to make that a 'bronze' level test was, IMO setting the bar far too low anyway. I know of a 16 week old puppy that just passed it! Why not adapt the current SV BH test?
Whilst we are at it, can I ask the reasoning (Videx) behind your suggestion that no working tests should be introduced until numbers being surveyed reach 2000?
Surely working ability is what underpins the GSD as a GSD, so why would we have a 'breed survey' and leave it out? By the time we reach 2000 we then have 2000 surveyed GSD's with absolutely no proof of any working ability approved for breeding.
As I say, perhaps I am missing something, and I would like to understand the reasoning. Thanks.
If there is no place for the KC GC, why not draft a british 'BH' test? A breed survey must have something representative of the BH. In any case, the decision to make that a 'bronze' level test was, IMO setting the bar far too low anyway. I know of a 16 week old puppy that just passed it! Why not adapt the current SV BH test?
Whilst we are at it, can I ask the reasoning (Videx) behind your suggestion that no working tests should be introduced until numbers being surveyed reach 2000?
Surely working ability is what underpins the GSD as a GSD, so why would we have a 'breed survey' and leave it out? By the time we reach 2000 we then have 2000 surveyed GSD's with absolutely no proof of any working ability approved for breeding.
As I say, perhaps I am missing something, and I would like to understand the reasoning. Thanks.
by Doppelganger on 23 February 2011 - 15:02
Of course, it could be that most show people are actually incapable of training their dogs to pass the KC GC Bronze test :)
by Videx on 23 February 2011 - 16:02
Far too many people, tragically, cannot "smell the coffee".when it comes to "meaningful strategic planning for future development of GSD breed improvements within the UK".
Our GSD breed here within the UK has gone many decades, indeed almost 100 years without a breed survey, with the exception of a few.
We have introduced a breed survey which primarily and rightly is focused on the basic NECESSITIES of "identification" and "health screening" and "conformation".
It is in existence for a very few years and with relatively few taking it, and we start adding "working tests" which are in no way connected to the SV/WUSV System.
REMEMBER - The SV System with its AD, BH, SchH1,2,3 and IPO1,2,3. and Koerung IS AVAILABLE TO AS MANY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE THEIR DOGS THROUGH IT, or even parts of it.
Obviously some of you either cannot read, and certainly cannot understand what I have written in the article above, and certainly fail to grasp the clear principle of "developing our breed survey" in keeping with a sustainable uptake, with a strong determination to make it a universal qualification for all GSD within the UK.
I genuinely despair at the lack of foresight and strategic planning which exists in so many GSD folk and generally. "identification" - "health screening" - "conformation" are surely enough to carry on for many more years, at least until we are all fully satisfied that the majority of GSD used for breeding are taking it.
You can tinker with the breed survey as often as you like, you can add working tests, and even the BH and the AD, and if you go down this road, many of you will wonder WHY so few are taking the breed survey, WHY so few are interested in the breed survey, and WHY it never "took off in our breed".
Being wise "with the benefit of hindsight" is something our GSD breed should strive to avoid.
These comments above may be difficult for many to grasp and understand, for the sake of our GSD breed and the value of our GSD breed survey for its future here within the UK, I simply hope to get through to enough of you.
If anyone thinks this post is arrogant or annoying, then you really cannot "smell the coffee".
Our GSD breed here within the UK has gone many decades, indeed almost 100 years without a breed survey, with the exception of a few.
We have introduced a breed survey which primarily and rightly is focused on the basic NECESSITIES of "identification" and "health screening" and "conformation".
It is in existence for a very few years and with relatively few taking it, and we start adding "working tests" which are in no way connected to the SV/WUSV System.
REMEMBER - The SV System with its AD, BH, SchH1,2,3 and IPO1,2,3. and Koerung IS AVAILABLE TO AS MANY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE THEIR DOGS THROUGH IT, or even parts of it.
Obviously some of you either cannot read, and certainly cannot understand what I have written in the article above, and certainly fail to grasp the clear principle of "developing our breed survey" in keeping with a sustainable uptake, with a strong determination to make it a universal qualification for all GSD within the UK.
I genuinely despair at the lack of foresight and strategic planning which exists in so many GSD folk and generally. "identification" - "health screening" - "conformation" are surely enough to carry on for many more years, at least until we are all fully satisfied that the majority of GSD used for breeding are taking it.
You can tinker with the breed survey as often as you like, you can add working tests, and even the BH and the AD, and if you go down this road, many of you will wonder WHY so few are taking the breed survey, WHY so few are interested in the breed survey, and WHY it never "took off in our breed".
Being wise "with the benefit of hindsight" is something our GSD breed should strive to avoid.
These comments above may be difficult for many to grasp and understand, for the sake of our GSD breed and the value of our GSD breed survey for its future here within the UK, I simply hope to get through to enough of you.
If anyone thinks this post is arrogant or annoying, then you really cannot "smell the coffee".
by missbeeb on 23 February 2011 - 16:02
... or it could be that many of us want as little to do with KC initiatives as possible! Many have SchH qualified dogs and show abroad as well as in the UK.Seems an odd thing to introduce as a prerequisite to attain a pass in a Breed survey. Surely there are more appropriate "tests"?
by Abby Normal on 23 February 2011 - 21:02
A statement without the rationale behind it can be so open to interpretation. Thank you (Videx) for setting out your rationale for the views expressed. I feel it might be better for all if that was put in at the outset, otherwise conclusions (such as doppelgangers) could be drawn. Alternatively 'people' are just left wondering, afraid to ask, knowing that the response will be a 'put down', probably making them feel that this really isn't the right 'environment' for them.
That leads to an interesting question which is why there has been so little interest in the breed survey. Has anyone ever asked the question, surveyed breed club members? Perhaps at bottom the level of interest in this way forward for the breed is actually minimal in overall terms?
MissBeeb, I agree that the introduction of a KC test is a mis-match here, but some kind of BH type test is necessary, otherwise if we aren't careful there will be more left out of the breed survey than is actually in it.
That leads to an interesting question which is why there has been so little interest in the breed survey. Has anyone ever asked the question, surveyed breed club members? Perhaps at bottom the level of interest in this way forward for the breed is actually minimal in overall terms?
MissBeeb, I agree that the introduction of a KC test is a mis-match here, but some kind of BH type test is necessary, otherwise if we aren't careful there will be more left out of the breed survey than is actually in it.
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