Oshawa, Ontario, Canada GORGEOUS Male 2 Yrs Old Needs EXPERIENCED Owner! Knows Commands - Page 2

Sunsilver, what a f**king nightmare. I figured you and your male GSD had gotten hurt too. Hope everyone heals up OK. This really stinks.

 

As to the dog in the post, hopefully someone experienced with GSD can evaluate the dog.  It doesn't say he HAS bit someone, does it?  I mean, I hear the same things said about really nice GSDs but in the wrong hands yeah it can go bad.  This is not a dog park breed or a breed where you can just have people coming on and off your property with a dog running loose.  He looks like a pretty nice dog.  Maybe he's got a screw loose and needs to be put down but maybe he's actually a really nice dog that doesn't take crap from people he doesn't know.

Sunsilver, I'm terribly sorry about your friend...and about Ranger getting bitten as well.  I have to ask, though: where does Gracie's future with you stand after this?

I also have to ask: what happened to your plan, as stated in that first thread about this dog?
"Safe introduction = a muzzle, both dogs on leash, and present butts to each other rather than faces." 
It doesn't sound like the muzzle was included in the scenario with Ranger...which, sadly, would be setting Gracie up for failure, even with the most mellow of dogs, from what I saw of her in the Youtube video done @ the shelter.  I recognize that you drove halfway down the East Coast of the US to save this dog's life because you really WANT the best for her, and you fell for her upon meeting her, too, which is why I'm surprised this all went down the way it did. It just seems like it would clearly have been too soon for an unmuzzled interaction with any other dog, especially a resident dog. 

The way Gracie latched on to Ranger is the way the guy I rescued has shown himself to be with other dogs, after initially seeming like he was Mr. Sociability for the first 8  months here--except he unerringly goes for the nape of the neck, and does the 'kill' shake. It is through sheer providence that I did not end up with any bites myself when he did that to my friend's dog who was [initially] staying with me for a few days. I pried him off with an elk-antler chew that I used as a 'break stick', because nothing else would make him release.  After the second episode of that, I made other arrangements for my friend's dog so she'd be safe. So no dog-sitting for me any longer, and no fostering or new dogs,until his problem is corrected--but I am working with him to correct it.

Brenda Aloff's  "AGGRESSION IN DOGS-PRACTICAL MANAGEMENT, PREVENTION & BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION"  is, IMO, THE textbook on dealing with this kind of crap; and she's not just theoretical--she's actually lived it, having worked with assimilating various breeds of dogs with aggression issues [her breed is the Smooth Fox Terrier, but she also adopted an aggressive GSD bitch as well]  into her household.  I recommend it to anyone who is working with an aggressive dog, and it should be mandatory reading for anyone who is going to do rescue and rehoming.
 

Thanks, Hexe. I did try a basket muzzle on her, but she freaked out, and got it full of snow, so I had to get it off her ASAP before she asphyxiated herself. I thought we had enough control with both dogs on prong collars and leashes. I underestimated her aggression. Like they say, hindsight is 20/20.   And I've been beating myself up with guilt ever since this happened.

Yes, she has very strong prey drive, and was likely trying for the neck bite when she went for Star. I will definitely check out that book you suggested.

At this point the ideal situation for her would be a dog-savvy person who doesn't currently have a dog. (Yeah, right. Good luck finding one!)

Right now, I'm just giving things some time to settle, and a chance to get over this trauma before I decide her future. I am really undecided as to whether I want to continue with her. I have contacted a local trainer, but they did not get back to me, and the people who initially evaluated her for me are too far away to work with on a regular basis.

I have contacted some very knowledgeable people on this board as well, and after viewing the video taken at the shelter, they think she can be worked with.

I guess I'm feeling a bit mamma-bearish over what happened to my groomer, and  to my dear, sweet, 11 year old boy, who has been my heart dog ever since he likely save my life one snowy night when I fell into a fence post hole and couldn't get out.

So i don't know if this is an option ,but if we can get him to denver,i know some very good people to work with him. i got a male the same way in late september ,and you would not see him as the same dog now!
IM me back for Phone number

Sunsilver- OMG- sounds like a nightmare scenario :(  I can only imagine the fright you had as you saw this play out and tried to stop it :( It sounds horrifying ! Prayers for your friend's hand to heal without damage.Nerve damage does take time to heal, and I hope this will be the case and that it will heal up, eventually!

Hexe, no, making the print larger wont help.They had huge print on the screen in the ophthalmologists office and I couldnt even see there was anything on the screen- it looked blank to me no matter what he did. It wasnt until he took something with pinholes in it and made me look through the pinhole that I could see. It makes me really tired from straining my eyes all the time. It takes tremendous effort for me to even be able to type and read.  Its just exhausting :( I have to pick and choose what I do, according to priority. I should have known this was coming. I should have had the surgery 2 yrs ago but I couldnt, since one is not allowed to lift anything heavy after the surgeries, and I was lifting missie T, who weighed 122 lbs, umpteen times a day.

Sunsilver, I'm not a real tolerant guy when it comes to things that result in dogs getting hurt, but you have no reason to beat yourself up. You had a lot of info on this dog and none of it gave you any reason to believe she would latch on like a Pit Bull. You and your friend had the guts to immediately jump in and save your old dog despite getting chewed up yourselves. You kept at it until you made the dog let go. I see a lot of bizarre things as a dog trainer but I rarely see this kind of dog insanity. And you went way out of your way to get this dog so she wouldn't be killed. I know it's an awful feeling to see your friend and your sweet old GSD get hurt but this came way out of left field. I didn't hear anyone warning you *before* this happened about something like this.

So all those folks who think the dog can be fixed--are they taking the dog?
 

"Latch on like a Pit Bull?"  Really, JonRob?  "Insanity"?  Neither adjective is applicable in this instance. She bit the way a herding dog is meant to bite its prey--full and committed, no slashing or chewing or snatching. and frankly exactly where a herding dog is supposed to 'grip' a sheep [neck or hind leg]. Not what was wanted for the circumstances, that is true, but not insane. Gracie will certainly NEVER be a 'dog park' kind of dog, but more dogs fall into that category than there are dogs that are perfect for such places.

As for offering to take on Gracie, if I had kenneling so I could keep all parties securely separated, I would in a minute. I've got my hands full right now and no way to keep three dogs apart.

I DO agree that Sunsilver should NOT beat herself up over this--when it comes to working with dogs, shit happens, because they're animals and not programmable machines. It is AWFUL that Ranger was hurt AND that Gracie also went for Star, but all that indicates is that the pace has to slow down--Gracie's not ready for unmuzzled interaction with another dog yet, and gave a warning of that when she went for Star.  It's human nature to want to integrate the dogs we live with as quickly as possible, but it's the problem dog that dictates the speed. It's hard to have that front-of-mind all the time, especially when the problem dog shows us signs that look like he or she is ready for the next step--anyone who works with dogs for any length of time has made that error.

Sunsilver, I'll see if I can get a referral for a trainer in your area who's worked with Aloff.  I know that a lot of trainers come down from Canada to attend her  clinics [she's located in Midland, MI, which is mid-state and fairly easy-access from Eastern Canada].

Sunsilver, I'm just reading about this. Really sorry it happened. Most would not expect a female would be so aggressive with  a male, but the worst dog fight I ever had was between a male and a female.  I hope it all works out for you in the end.

I pried him off with an elk-antler chew that I used as a 'break stick', because nothing else would make him release.

Was I ever wishing I had a break stick when we were trying to make her let go!   As someone else jokingly said to me, "Well at least we know she's got a persistent bite!"

I'm just glad it wasn't a full mouth bite, or Ranger would have suffered even worse damage to his leg!