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by Videx on 24 February 2011 - 02:02
The interest in the GSD Breed Survey is not minimal now, and it has been growing since the first British Sieger. It was "saved" by the British Sieger, NOT by anything else. The Breed Surveyors should fully support my views of our Breed Survey and resist all temptations to simply revel in their own perceived status. The Breed Surveyors should be leaders in ensuring our Breed Survey has every realistic opportunity to grow in popularity, recognising the absolute need to resist any and every impediment to such growth, large or small. The GSD Breed Survey needs to be linked to the Entry Requirements of a major GSD Event, eg The British Sieger, and now the addition of the GSDL/WUSV Regional Events.
It would continue to grow WITH the growth in the number and status of the Regional Events. The status of the Regional Events NEEDS to be enhanced further in order to maintain the growth in numbers participating in the GSD Breed Survey. One very important way of achieving this higher status is to introduce opportunity to gain the title of British Champion at GSDL/WUSV Regional Events.
Maybe one day soon the Regional Group will realise that all of these important developments rely on integration. To leave out the British Champion Title is a nonsense, in a similar way as the introduction of the KC Good Citizens Test into the breed survey. When you have an excellent product it is ridiculous to ignore making additional genuine enhancements and even more ridiculous to introduce additional hurdles of a completely unnecessary nature which impede in any way obvious and achievable progress.
We need a 10 to 20 year plan for the realistic and sustainable progress of our GSD breed here within the UK. I baulk at the possibility that this can be achieved with any involvement whatsoever of the GSD Breed Council.
It would continue to grow WITH the growth in the number and status of the Regional Events. The status of the Regional Events NEEDS to be enhanced further in order to maintain the growth in numbers participating in the GSD Breed Survey. One very important way of achieving this higher status is to introduce opportunity to gain the title of British Champion at GSDL/WUSV Regional Events.
Maybe one day soon the Regional Group will realise that all of these important developments rely on integration. To leave out the British Champion Title is a nonsense, in a similar way as the introduction of the KC Good Citizens Test into the breed survey. When you have an excellent product it is ridiculous to ignore making additional genuine enhancements and even more ridiculous to introduce additional hurdles of a completely unnecessary nature which impede in any way obvious and achievable progress.
We need a 10 to 20 year plan for the realistic and sustainable progress of our GSD breed here within the UK. I baulk at the possibility that this can be achieved with any involvement whatsoever of the GSD Breed Council.
by bazza on 24 February 2011 - 06:02
David (Videx) genuine question..... What does it feel like to bang your head against a brick wall on a daily basis???
by Shonnag on 24 February 2011 - 10:02
I have been following this topic and although not banging my head against a wall I am sure scratching it!! no one has answered the question as to when the need for a GDCS bronze became a requirement so I have undertaken some searches on the net in a hope to learn more. Am I better informed, no I'm more confused.
My dogs have their bronze certificates ( 1 has gold) because I enjoy training and the certificates only have pet names on them. Note the paperwork for Tattoo/Microchip number required to do the test at Bolton http://www.lararth.co.uk/Documents/bolton%20open%202011.pdf This implies that the GCDS requirements have been tweaked for GSDs as there is no paperwork referenced by the KC at http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/408 to take the bronze test. Which IMHO is way below that required to achieve the BH, referred to in this topic as a UK BH.
Could someone please confirm what paperwork is required for the (new) breed survey and a link to a document that contains this information.
Shonnag
My dogs have their bronze certificates ( 1 has gold) because I enjoy training and the certificates only have pet names on them. Note the paperwork for Tattoo/Microchip number required to do the test at Bolton http://www.lararth.co.uk/Documents/bolton%20open%202011.pdf This implies that the GCDS requirements have been tweaked for GSDs as there is no paperwork referenced by the KC at http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/408 to take the bronze test. Which IMHO is way below that required to achieve the BH, referred to in this topic as a UK BH.
Could someone please confirm what paperwork is required for the (new) breed survey and a link to a document that contains this information.
Shonnag
by Abby Normal on 24 February 2011 - 10:02
I question this statement:
"working tests" which are in no way connected to the SV/WUSV System.
They are a requirement of the SV breed survey, so how can it be that 'they are in no way connected with the SV/WUSV system' ?
You refer to 'completely unnecessary hurdles' when referring to any kind of working test.
You may be right that it may be 'too much, too soon' to introduce them now in the UK, but it should not be 'lost' that working ability is an essential requirement of a correct GSD. I foresee a real possibility that it will never materialise in the breed survey in the future, which would be a a real shame. It would be good to see a 5 - 10 year plan formulated, with set goals and objectives.
IMO the opportunity to achieve the title of British Sieger should only be open to dogs which have achieved the necessary minimum title of Sch1 or IPO1, and have demonstrated the required qualities in addition to health and conformation. Perhaps that would provide some incentive to embrace the whole package.
I think it is a huge and positive step that breed surveys are being carried out, but if the bar is set too low, that could become fixed for the future. It is a difficult balance to achieve.
Bazza - do you have an actual opinion on this issue?
I am surprised at the lack of input to this thread.
"working tests" which are in no way connected to the SV/WUSV System.
They are a requirement of the SV breed survey, so how can it be that 'they are in no way connected with the SV/WUSV system' ?
You refer to 'completely unnecessary hurdles' when referring to any kind of working test.
You may be right that it may be 'too much, too soon' to introduce them now in the UK, but it should not be 'lost' that working ability is an essential requirement of a correct GSD. I foresee a real possibility that it will never materialise in the breed survey in the future, which would be a a real shame. It would be good to see a 5 - 10 year plan formulated, with set goals and objectives.
IMO the opportunity to achieve the title of British Sieger should only be open to dogs which have achieved the necessary minimum title of Sch1 or IPO1, and have demonstrated the required qualities in addition to health and conformation. Perhaps that would provide some incentive to embrace the whole package.
I think it is a huge and positive step that breed surveys are being carried out, but if the bar is set too low, that could become fixed for the future. It is a difficult balance to achieve.
Bazza - do you have an actual opinion on this issue?
I am surprised at the lack of input to this thread.
by Nellie on 24 February 2011 - 11:02
IMO for a dog to participate in any breed survey, not only should it have all health checks , it should have a working test, or would we not still be breeding from animals that qualify for conformation only and not ensuring the working ability of the animal which IS a big issue with dogs being bred in the UK, 2000 dogs surveyed will add a lot of puppies only known to qualify for conformation, GSDL already has the working group so try using it ,
by Sue B on 24 February 2011 - 11:02
Shonna, I Personally THANK YOU for stating the most obvious, of so many reasons, why it was such a ridiculous idea to introduce the KC Bronze Award into our GSD Breed Survey. If for no other reason, the fact that NO PROOF OF IDENTITY at all is required to pass any KC Award. You simply enter your dog for the award, no proof of ID is required, no-one checks for a Microchip, Tattoo, indeed it isn't even necessary to give any other detail except your dogs PET NAME!!! So actually the points that some made re , "Surely it isn't to much to ask for a simple obedience test to pass a Survey", is simply irrelevant and those who fear taking the test is also simply irrelevant, all anyone has to do is train ONE DOG AND ONE DOG ONLY and then they can use that dog over and over again as many times as they like, with as many different names as they like, who would know!!!!! Oh yes, I suppose it would be an idea to train a Bitch too for the same purpose.
Therefore, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON, no KCGC Award should be accepted as Proof of ANY dogs training capabilities.
Forget about the KC system that neither requires Health tests or Identification for participation in any of their Activities.
THE ONLY WAY FORWARD is to ONLY ACCEPT tests which require IDENTIFYABLE PROOF that this particular dog was the dog which underwent the test which is ANY test held under the WUSV system. Other than that, the ONLY other way is for the British Surveyors to continue to do the simple, already accepted Character / Temperament tests that they have always done BUT WITH ONE EXCEPTION, that they should standardise the test to ENSURE THE SAME test conditions are used by ALL SURVEYORS and that every participant knows exactly what his/her dog needs to be capable of before entering. Thats ensures fairness and equality across the board.
Personally I think the character / temp test should be done on the day by a different Surveyor, this would eliminate the whispers that some people go under the same surveyors all the time because they know they will turn a blind eye to their nervous / timid or Gun Shy dogs, having two surveyors involved would help eliminate those rumours, but then thats just my opinion.
The Kennel Club Brigade element of our Breed Council will be the ruination of our breed in the UK by continuing to keep it permanently locked into the KC Dark Ages.
Regards
Sue b
Therefore, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON, no KCGC Award should be accepted as Proof of ANY dogs training capabilities.
Forget about the KC system that neither requires Health tests or Identification for participation in any of their Activities.
THE ONLY WAY FORWARD is to ONLY ACCEPT tests which require IDENTIFYABLE PROOF that this particular dog was the dog which underwent the test which is ANY test held under the WUSV system. Other than that, the ONLY other way is for the British Surveyors to continue to do the simple, already accepted Character / Temperament tests that they have always done BUT WITH ONE EXCEPTION, that they should standardise the test to ENSURE THE SAME test conditions are used by ALL SURVEYORS and that every participant knows exactly what his/her dog needs to be capable of before entering. Thats ensures fairness and equality across the board.
Personally I think the character / temp test should be done on the day by a different Surveyor, this would eliminate the whispers that some people go under the same surveyors all the time because they know they will turn a blind eye to their nervous / timid or Gun Shy dogs, having two surveyors involved would help eliminate those rumours, but then thats just my opinion.
The Kennel Club Brigade element of our Breed Council will be the ruination of our breed in the UK by continuing to keep it permanently locked into the KC Dark Ages.
Regards
Sue b
by bazza on 24 February 2011 - 11:02
ABBY, I wholeheartedly AGREE with Videx and Sue b, would you like me to retype what they have said for your benefit? Now you have my opinion...okay for you?
by missbeeb on 24 February 2011 - 11:02
Abby, the title of British Sieger can only be achieved by those with SchH 1 or more.
Only those daft enough (yeah... me) post on here now because of the abuse and nitpicking by unknown peeps.
by Sue B on 24 February 2011 - 11:02
The Way Forward to a Healthy Future for the GSD in the UK
by Videx on 24 February 2011 - 13:02
missbeeb: In answer to your question, second post on this page. It gives me a headache!
An excellent logo (above) for the "WUSV British Regional Group"
An excellent logo (above) for the "WUSV British Regional Group"
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