Uran von der Rieser Perle SZ 2237897 should NOT be used for stud!! - Page 3

This is NOT about a particluar dog.
Again, you need to pay more attention.
I have already explained that someone passed me the information about Uran, I doublechecked it, it was correct, and I have posted it.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Uran is being promoted:
http://www.canilvomhausrevolution.com/Uran.html
http://www.canilvomhausrevolution.com/Dogs.html

And he has been used already: http://www.canilvomhausrevolution.com/Ninhadas.html

If you are interested in the 40 or so other dogs mentioned in the SV-Decknachrichten (and each month there is a whole new list), go ahead, be my guest, BUY the Decknachrichten and check for yourselves.

My goal is merely to bring the message: 1. WATCH OUT! 2. People still keep breeding with dogs that were mentioned in the SV-Decknachrichten!

Anyone desiring information on a particular dog has the possibility to write me, and I will check all of the info in my posession.

peterlee



 

Secondly, you should notice that hexe (5 Feb 2012, 8.02) wrongly claimed that Jantie had access to, and provided a link to, that list of 44 dogs to which almost everyone except Jantie has referred.  You should also note that the first two replies in this thread showed that the writers of those replies had no idea either - no idea of the list, and remarkably, no idea why the dog should not be used at stud.

Thirdly, I hate to quote, but you have obviously missed an important post:

by Jantie on 05 February 2012 - 09:02

Jantie Posts: 146 Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:08 pm

Hi Hexe, you must not be puzzled anymore. Somebody let me know the fact, I checked it and just published it. So there ARE indeed OTHER people in this world, who want to keep it all clean. Godspeed! P.S.: And I quote YOU: "If you truly don't have an agenda other than wanting to see strides made toward reducing the incidence of hip and elbow malformations in the breed, why not make a point to post a link the SV's list each time it's released, so people can easily find it and file the info for future reference?" You go ahead Hexe and do that!

Someone other than Jantie was concerned enough to inform Jantie of the status of this dog. I can only assume that this informant urgently wished the public to be made aware that this dog should not be used as stud. The list to which you refer is dated 14 June 2011, and was already eight months old. The question you need to ask yourself is why was Jantie's crystal ball so far behind the times.

Fourthly, you proclaim intimate knowledge of this dog and his use - "the dog will not be used for breeding" - so I can only assume that you, or your associates, have some undisclosed interest in this unfortunate dog and therefore you also wish to join this bizzarre vendetta against Jantie.

EDIT: There was a "cross-post", i.e. this post was being written before the preceding post by Jantie was submitted.


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Thank you Alan. I appreciate that.

For the people who like to pick holes in my arguments: here’s another one.

I have, again, no personal interest in this dog, his current or previous owners nor the breeder. The basic information was passed on to me.

Carry van de Zomerdijkslanden

The breeders (Janny Krabbe & Leo Behrens) told the buyers who bought the dog when he was 2 years old, that Carry began his show carreer in Germany. When he had his hips and elbows screened, he was certified with “ED d”, which ended his show carreer, of course, and up until today, his result in the SV-Genetics has not changed.

The owners at the time (before selling the dog to the UK) decided to re-x-ray the dog in Holland for their own satisfaction and the subsequent result all of a sudden had changed to “ED Free”!? The elbow dysplasia had magically disappeared, it was healed?!

I have called the Kennel Club in Holland and they have confirmed the ED free-result, I have a copy of this certificate in my posession.
People in England tell me, this seems “to have happened many times in the UK, when dogs have failed the German A-stamp but have a good score in the UK.“

Now what should we do?

The SV doesn’t need to be called, their score would have been correct.

Who wants to put energy in this, and call the Kennel Club in Holland, and try to search for the Vet and where the fraud might have been committed. Anyone? Volonteers?

The dog is already in another country, who bothers? (I can’t do it all by myself!) Maybe David Payne or other people in Egland who care much about the healthy GSD can give me a hand? The dog is quite near to them.

I’m sorry for all the people now buying progeny of said dog.

Actually, it is about a particular dog. The thread is headed, 'Uran von der Rieser Perle SZ 2237897 should NOT be used for stud!!'. That is about a particular dog, is it not?

Be that as it may, thank you for the link. The dog is in Portugal so far as I can see. The dog does not have a Körung (and in view of the HD/ED score cannot have one). It doesn't make sense (to me at least) to mate dogs which do not have a Körung and which would be ineligible for entry into the SV stud book. There might be no end of reasons why a dog would not be eligible for a Körung. It might not have a schutzhund title, it might be over the breed standard in height, it may fail to gain a show grade of 'G' or more, it may have unsatisfactory hip or elbow scores etc. There are many reasons. The outcome is the same. In Germany such a dog such a dog cannot be entered in the stud book or used for breeding (not if the breeder wants pink papers for the progeny at any rate).

However, this dog is not in Germany. He is in Portugal. Now, I am not suggesting for a moment that it is sensible to use for mating a dog which does not have a Körung (and the satisfactory hip and elbow scores that entails). It is not sensible. But, and it is a very big but, the rules which apply in Germany do not necessarily apply in every other country in the world in which GSDs are bred. Perhaps they should apply but they don't.

As Silbersee said on one of your other threads, '(The SV) cannot legally force other foreign breed organizations to adopt their strict breeding requirements. The SV even has to accept AKC registered dogs, all of them and we all know that the AKC has absolutely no requirements for breeding.' And this applies in many countries around the world. I don't know what the position is in Portugal but quite possibly it is the same there.

The point is, though, that if you scan details of litters for sale in almost any of these countries you will find that the majority of puppies offered for sale there do not come out of litters where both parents have a Körung. The quality of the parents varies enormously because there is no one set of rules which applies to all countries. Sadly, many people still breed from dogs without any satisfactory health checks let alone a Körung. Outside of Germany, therefore, it is still a case of 'let the buyer beware'. In the UK, for instance, the mandatory requirements for breeding are negligible.

And before Jantie says, 'you need to pay more attention' please note that I am NOT condoning these breeding practices in any way. To my mind they are wrong. However, the fact remains that different countries have different rules and this dog is in Portugal. 'Exposing' dogs which do not comply with German rules which are located in other countries would probably mean 'exposing' most of the GSDs in those countries. So the question remains unanswered really, why this particular dog?

peterlee

Sorry. I misread you. You need to understand that when a dog fails to make it into the SV Breeding Registry (or whatever it's called), the dog doesn't actually know that it failed. So, when the owners of a boy dog introduce it to a female dog on heat, the two dogs don't ask if each other has made it into the Breeding Book or not. Really, they have no scruples! Just like some owners out there! :)

allanf,

I am not sure I understand you at all. No dog in Germany would use this dog at stud because the dog does not have a Körung (and is ineligible to have one because of the unsatisfactory ED/HD score). They would not get pink papers for the progeny. Every breeder in Germany would know this.

That is not the case in other countries (and this dog seems to be in Portugal). Many other countries have negligible mandatory breeding requirements and if someone wanted to use this dog in such a country they would be free to do so and to have the progeny registered just like any other. I am not saying that this is right or that I am condoning it because I am not. But that is what the situation is in many (probably most) countries outside of Germany so if one is going to pick holes on why such and such a dog should not be used the list is never ending. It is very much a case of let the buyer beware in those countries. Dogs which comply with SV requirements for breeding are very much the exception rather than the rule in most countries. Sad but true.

 "Uran is being promoted:
http://www.canilvomhausrevolution.com/Uran.html
http://www.canilvomhausrevolution.com/Dogs.html

And he has been used already: http://www.canilvomhausrevolution.com/Ninhadas.html"

Jantie, had you included the above in your initial post on this subject, there would have been no further questions on my part, and likely from anyone else as well, as to your reasons for initiating the discussion. See how simple this could have been? 

I reiterate--I do not consider it to be acceptable or ethical to use an unsound dog for breeding, regardless of whether a particular country or registering organization requires certifications of soundness or not.   

Hey Hexe and Peterlee,
the reason Jantie picked this dog seems obvious - due to his close relatives Toni/Tell vd Rieser Perle! I am surprised that he has not stated that but Jantie is Jantie, sometimes unpredictable!
Don't worry about allanf though, he is too busy imagining what boy dog might do to girl dog! (Sorry Mr. Darcy I could not help myself!!! If you think my last sentence is inappropriate, please delete, lol lol)

Silbersee,

You said:

by Silbersee on 06 February 2012 - 16:02

Silbersee Posts: 299 Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 07:30 pm

Hey Hexe and Peterlee, the reason Jantie picked this dog seems obvious - due to his close relatives Toni/Tell vd Rieser Perle! I am surprised that he has not stated that but Jantie is Jantie, sometimes unpredictable! Don't worry about allanf though, he is too busy imagining what boy dog might do to girl dog! (Sorry Mr. Darcy I could not help myself!!! If you think my last sentence is inappropriate, please delete, lol lol)

I am surprised!

This dog has Schh and Korung by SV somehow and advertise for stud!!!