Banned For Life, By Sharon Bowen & Co, For Complaining. - Page 4

Videx in your earlier post you asked bob4 "Now tell everyone on her about your behavior towards the Secretary of the GSD Club of Wales? Something which NO breed Club or Canine Club will tolerate."   As bob4 doesnt seem to know what he has supposedly done wrong, other than report the gsd wales to the kennel club after what everyone agrees was due to the disgraceful discusion between the judge and other exhibitors regarding the possession of german qualifications of a certain bitch entered on the day. Reading the letters in the national mag the same was not discussed during the dog classes, judging of which had already been completed. Can you therefore elaborate what you mean by your comment that Bob4 behaviour towards the secretary and why this should effect the banning to be extended to his wife, or anyone else living at that particular postal address? AS

AS, who are you?

it would seem that bob4 has been economic with the truth, but even if bob had shown aggression towards the committee his wife did not, so why is she banned, surely to ban innocent people is wrong or is it only me that see's this, i can understand the committee not wanting aggressive people at their shows and i think that to ban bob for being aggressive is correct, what i dont understand is what his wife or family have done to be banned,surely they could tell bob he is not allowed at any of their shows for x amount of time but his wife and family are, or is it guilt by association.
jim h

Jim, there are some logical reasons for a committee to refuse entries from, let's say, the same address. With respect Jim, do not get confused in respect of legalities about this issue. Bob should write to the KC about the refusal of his and those of his wife. He may be surprised by their reply. You may also check with the KC and/or a solicitor, or an even higher legal authority. Discrimination law is not everything you may think it is, and assumption can lead to surprise and/or disappointment.

Due to a friend pointing me to something else on this database, I have seen this thread for the first time tonight.

Firstly, I want to say I do not appreciate my name being used by someone else be it to state a fact or prove a point, at least not without my prior knowledge or permission. Whoever you are A Shepherd please contact me before attempting to speak and/or offer advice on my behalf.

Secondly, I also remember hearing and reading about this show at the time. If I remember correctly a similar thing happened at their Two Day Championship Show the following year.

Thirdly, it seems we all have to be careful about complaining in this present climate as those who do not like to enter without a guarenteed win will be prepared to try to "Get Rid of You" should you have the audacity (i.e Daring, Careless Bravery, High-Spirited Courage, Power of making oneself heard when speaking) to try to rid the breed of bad and/or dishonest judging and the decisions these people make, which inadvertently end up effecting more than that one particular show but ALL SHOWS because the knock on effect is devastingly obvious in our breed - ENTRIES DIMINISHING at an ever alarming rate.

Fourthly, I have no knowledge as to whether Bob4 was aggressive or not at the show, I was not there, nor to my knowledge do I know Bob4 personally so I can't even hazzard a guess as to what his character may or may not have done. However, when it comes to banning his wife as well, I do have to agree with Jim Halliday and others on this thread when they cannot see the reason why anyone (other than Bob4 himself) from that address have to be banned from the GSD Wales Club shows. I do hope the committee will have a rethink on this issue as it doesnt bode well for good relations and does make other exhibitors wonder WHY such lengths have been taken???

Knowing David Payne as I do , I am somewhat surprised at his reaction to this. Talking about Discrimination Laws is IMO unnecessary, for gods sake this is supposed to be our Hobby, are we to accept that we can be cheated or watch an injustice without daring to complain, for fear that we are going to be Kennel Clubbed ourselves or banned from attending one of our own Breed Club Shows because someone on the committee has a personal problem with you????  God Forbid what next?? Banning all those who own animals better than those running the committee just in case they win them?

Best Regards
Sue b

Sue, excellent post, If we go back to the beginning of this problem, which started with comments from the judge about a female not having a working qualification. This is not the first time comments like this have been said at shows. These are K.C. shows and we all know the rules, judges before they start judging must be sat down and briefed what they can and can't do or say. They must clearly understand before they start judging, as ignorance is not an excuse. Dave Payne has mentioned in previous posts about conditions of entry to shows, I think it refered to the British Sieger, about entering under judges you have links with, ie dogs bred by, owned in partnership, dogs trained by, same committee, we have a rule about handling dogs over the previous year and everyone accepts this without question, so why not include the other items which is causing a great deal of discontent with exhibiters, I'm sure committees can see the logic in getting these anomalies sorted out, I know committees try their best, and it's hard to get good committee members, but attention to detail is a must.   

First of all others on earlier posts on this thread brought up "THE LAW" with particular reference to "discrimination" and even EU Law. PLEASE CHECK.  It is very clear that I simply responded to these comments.

Secondly, Bob Elliot can phone, write or email the Kennel Club about this WHOLE matter, and about ALL is aspects and issues, and most likely will receive clear and answers, which a believe will most likely disappoint him.

Thirdly, No matter how foreign Judges are briefed on Show rules and a Judges responsibility, it may occasionally happen that a Foreign Judge makes an error or even fails to read or fully understand the guidence given to them, and no matter what any member of the Show Committee do, the Judge may make a wrong decision and sticks by his decision. As appears to have happened in this case.

A complaint was officially lodged to the Kennel Club by, I understand, Bob Elliot, to the Club Secretary at the Show. The manner of his making his complaint to Sharron Bowen (Steward) and Sue Evans (the GSD Club of Wales Secretary) was apparently in an aggressive, intimidating and offensive manner, causing them upset and distress. This and apparently another aggressive, intimidating and upsetting altercation on another Committee Member a month or so ago, when she was at HOVGSD Training Club, to train her dogs, may have  influenced the the GSD Club of Wales Committee in their previous decisions/actions and future decisions/actions.

The GSD Club of Wales committee have also clearly decided to exercise their Rules regarding "refusal of entries", and as I have already stated they may consider further additional decisions/actions in respect Bob Elliots behavior.

In my opinion the matter will not be resolved on here, in a barrack lawyer kind of manner, or by unnecessary personalisation by Bob Elliot.
Any hope I held that appropriate and deserved apoligies may have resolved the matter, must have surely disappeared.

I had offered to assist Bob to resolve this matter, resulting in ridicule from him.

My comments on this matter have now ended. 

Jim h, I'll ask again, who has said that I was aggressive at that show, answer no one, only the steward Sharon Bowen, and this only to deflect the readers from the truth.
I quote from the stewards statement Sharon Bowen GSD magazine April 2009

A gentleman now known to me as Mr Elliott entered the ring in an aggressive manner and shouted
that it was unfair to ask about koerungs and the judge should not do this.
Mr Elliott gave me little time to answer that I had told the judge this, although I did say that I wasn,t
aware of the actual rule which stated the judge couldn't ask this question.
I tried to speak further with Mr Elliott but he stormed out of the ring

the truth is  mrs bowen shouted there are no KC rules to say he can't, this is total lack of  knowledge
for someone running gsd  shows,  and a Championship show Judge, shorly a judging course is needed,


even if what she said is true, and it's not, to enter the ring in an aggressive manner,what exactly is she saying,
did I march in arms flying around, fist in the air, no, it's aload of rubbish,
I'm 6ft 3ins tall man,  if I marched struted into the ring to address a small woman
it might look to her a little intimadating, I don't know I'm only guessing.
Mr Payne was there watching at the time I went into the ring, he would have said if I was aggressive.
Once again I point out to you I have many  witnesses that will verify to my conduct that day.
Sharon Bowed has none or should I say none that has come forward yet.
email me I will give you a list of their names,
so please Jim belive me there are no witnesses to say contrary to what I say.
Mr Payne put this aggressive nonsence to bed it's just deflecting the true facts.

Mr Payne is being very defensive when he should be enjoying his win.

Answer to all this is simple. For UK shows have your K.C. judges.  For the other shows ie sieger shows ect   F.C.I/ S.V. judges.

Mixing the two can have problems.