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by Abadonsdad on 22 March 2013 - 20:03
you can try to call ,,,I am alive dog rescue, they may take him...they are in Canada
by Bhaugh on 23 March 2013 - 02:03
As previously mentioned, doing rescue is a risk. Ive been in your shoes more times than I can count. The good news is she is good with people. I would be working her alone to see how she does and if she continues to be good with people. Sometimes it turns out that the dog isn't really good with people either and the hard choice needs to be made as to what to do.
I want to make a point that I had to deal with, with my so called "service dog" (ha ha). Maybe Im just getting older and not willing to put up with the crap anymore but a sound dog is a sound dog. Dogs may have aversion to other dogs and some people but overall, one gets the general sense that the dog is right in the head. Honestly not sure a sound dog fits here with your gal Sunsilver. I've worked with more than my share of starving dogs, dogs who resource guard their food etc. but from what you described, I think there is more going on with her. However the only way your going to know this for sure, is to keep her a while longer and see what happens. I'm sure others will disagree that some high prey dogs just don't get along with any other dog and that's ok but it really isn't ok with me esp when I have to place the dog with a pet family. The problem here is that you have no past on this dog to verify whether she will come around. And that can be the scary part. I would take her out each day and do obedience, take her for walks, alone etc and see how she does. Your going to know in your heart whether she can be placed or not. Dogs always "do" something that makes you say "Not this one" Trust your gut.
You cant feel guilty that this happened. I agree shit happens. If we all had hindsight 20/20.......My supposed service dog is an absolute nut job. She isn't aggressive thank God but I wont place her because I think she has it in her to bite even if its because she is scared. No matter should it unfortunately be a kid. Not worth the risk.
I tend to agree with Jonrob about the herding part. I was raised with stock dogs grabbing a leg and not letting go isn't the way of a herding dog. Actually if the dog tried to do this, they would have been kicked and killed so to make that comparison doesn't really work for me either. Grabbing the leg is odd. Maybe its just what she saw so she went for it.
Barb
I want to make a point that I had to deal with, with my so called "service dog" (ha ha). Maybe Im just getting older and not willing to put up with the crap anymore but a sound dog is a sound dog. Dogs may have aversion to other dogs and some people but overall, one gets the general sense that the dog is right in the head. Honestly not sure a sound dog fits here with your gal Sunsilver. I've worked with more than my share of starving dogs, dogs who resource guard their food etc. but from what you described, I think there is more going on with her. However the only way your going to know this for sure, is to keep her a while longer and see what happens. I'm sure others will disagree that some high prey dogs just don't get along with any other dog and that's ok but it really isn't ok with me esp when I have to place the dog with a pet family. The problem here is that you have no past on this dog to verify whether she will come around. And that can be the scary part. I would take her out each day and do obedience, take her for walks, alone etc and see how she does. Your going to know in your heart whether she can be placed or not. Dogs always "do" something that makes you say "Not this one" Trust your gut.
You cant feel guilty that this happened. I agree shit happens. If we all had hindsight 20/20.......My supposed service dog is an absolute nut job. She isn't aggressive thank God but I wont place her because I think she has it in her to bite even if its because she is scared. No matter should it unfortunately be a kid. Not worth the risk.
I tend to agree with Jonrob about the herding part. I was raised with stock dogs grabbing a leg and not letting go isn't the way of a herding dog. Actually if the dog tried to do this, they would have been kicked and killed so to make that comparison doesn't really work for me either. Grabbing the leg is odd. Maybe its just what she saw so she went for it.
Barb
by Sunsilver on 23 March 2013 - 09:03
Barb, she was on a very tight leash, and I was letting her butt-sniff my old guy, so, yeah, the leg was pretty much all that she could reach. The bite is just above his hock.
However, don't predators go for the upper leg to bring a game animal down? The neck bite is always the first choice but the hindquarters make a good target, too. (I watch a lot of National Geographic Wild.)
It definintely looked like she was going for a neck bite with Star.
However, don't predators go for the upper leg to bring a game animal down? The neck bite is always the first choice but the hindquarters make a good target, too. (I watch a lot of National Geographic Wild.)
It definintely looked like she was going for a neck bite with Star.
by Jetndre on 23 March 2013 - 12:03
It's easy to sit at the keyboard and offer suggestions(as was already pointed out by one person), but Sunsilver may I suggest getting Gracie used to wearing the muzzle a few mins a day until she's accepting of it being on her. Also, I'm not an advocate of e-collar training, but does anyone with good practical experience in using it for training think it would help? or make matters worse. Not talking about putting it on her and cranking up the juice and attempting another dog introduction, but just starting out by using in conjunction with obedience training in general and such... and going from there.
For the record, I"m not a rescue nor do I personally place rescue dogs in homes. I volunteer with a few established reputable GSD rescues and just do evals, or pulls or vetting trips, etc.. whatever is needed. The rescues these shelter dogs go to usually put them in experienced foster homes for a couple weeks to start with and then do home checks on adopters, reference checks, etc..no stone left unturned before adopters are approved. They also try to match up adopters with suitable dogs... I will say as a breed GSDs are usually very honest dogs.. what you see is what you get. Some may occassionally have a hidden behavior problem that is set off by a certain trigger, but seldom do they do a complete 180 going from happy friendly dogs to bad biting dogs. .. . Many of the rescue dogs go to first time GSD owners so they have to be evaluated and judged to be as safe as possible.
Guess I don't watch the same TV shows 'yall' do as I just figured Gracie, with her high prey drive and aggressiveness, just grabbed on to the first solid piece of poor Ranger that she could reach ...She obvioulsy has made just an 'iota' of progress in that she took time to sniff Ranger before latching on ( though I seriously doubt Sunsilver views it as 'progress') ... the two dogs at the shelter she met she just ran in for the grab without as much as giving them the 'courtesy' to stop and sniff.
For the record, I"m not a rescue nor do I personally place rescue dogs in homes. I volunteer with a few established reputable GSD rescues and just do evals, or pulls or vetting trips, etc.. whatever is needed. The rescues these shelter dogs go to usually put them in experienced foster homes for a couple weeks to start with and then do home checks on adopters, reference checks, etc..no stone left unturned before adopters are approved. They also try to match up adopters with suitable dogs... I will say as a breed GSDs are usually very honest dogs.. what you see is what you get. Some may occassionally have a hidden behavior problem that is set off by a certain trigger, but seldom do they do a complete 180 going from happy friendly dogs to bad biting dogs. .. . Many of the rescue dogs go to first time GSD owners so they have to be evaluated and judged to be as safe as possible.
Guess I don't watch the same TV shows 'yall' do as I just figured Gracie, with her high prey drive and aggressiveness, just grabbed on to the first solid piece of poor Ranger that she could reach ...She obvioulsy has made just an 'iota' of progress in that she took time to sniff Ranger before latching on ( though I seriously doubt Sunsilver views it as 'progress') ... the two dogs at the shelter she met she just ran in for the grab without as much as giving them the 'courtesy' to stop and sniff.
by Sunsilver on 23 March 2013 - 12:03
I just went too fast with her. Mea culpa!
An e-collar HAS been suggested by the two people in my schutzhund club that evaluated her. However, since I have zero experience with them I will only go that route with the help of an experienced trainer. I see this as one situation where an e-collar would be very helpful. As the trainers said, this is a behaviour that MUST be eliminated at all costs. We will definitely be taking a BIG step back, and putting a lot more obedience training into her before any sort of re-introduction is attempted. And this time it WILL include a muzzle for sure!
I used to have this in my sig back when I was nursing, and moderated on a nursing board:
So, chalk this one up to experience...the BAD KIND....and try to move forward.
An e-collar HAS been suggested by the two people in my schutzhund club that evaluated her. However, since I have zero experience with them I will only go that route with the help of an experienced trainer. I see this as one situation where an e-collar would be very helpful. As the trainers said, this is a behaviour that MUST be eliminated at all costs. We will definitely be taking a BIG step back, and putting a lot more obedience training into her before any sort of re-introduction is attempted. And this time it WILL include a muzzle for sure!
I used to have this in my sig back when I was nursing, and moderated on a nursing board:
Nitwit ideas are for emergencies. You use them when you've got nothing else to try. If they work, they go in the Book. Otherwise you follow the Book, which is largely a collection of nitwit ideas that worked.
-- Larry Niven / The Mote in God's Eye (1974)
__________________
Good judgment and the ability to make right choices comes with experience. Experience comes from making wrong choices....
So, chalk this one up to experience...the BAD KIND....and try to move forward.
by Bhaugh on 23 March 2013 - 14:03
Sunsilver,
Make sure you keep an eye on the leg for ANY sign of infection. Actually I would be giving a mild herbal antibiotic at this point if she broke the skin. It usually doesnt fester until its too late and the infection is well into the leg. I've had this happen and the dog had to be crated for a week.
Jetndre, I applaud you for doing what you do and for coming here and following up. I don't think that anyone is blaming here just trying to do what's best for Sunsilver and her dog. I will say that the dogs I've worked with don't usually show their true colors for about 2 weeks or so, once they have settled in and start to feel comfortable. Mastiff's take about 3 months...Some are on their best behavior others just the opposite. I try and ignore dogs the first few days but set the rules so they know what is expected of them. Once some time has passed, I see what they have for obedience and how well the dog responds to humans. Do they have any respect for humans? This is where I know whether the dog can be redirected. Ones that fail this test are not adopted out.
It could have been that Gracie was on a tight leash and she could feel the apprehension before she even met your other dog. You, by no fault of your own, may have set her up to fail. But now you know and can work from that.
And to answer your question....."However, don't predators go for the upper leg to bring a game animal down?" Don't over think why she did it. The fact is that she did. You now know that she is aggressive with other dogs and move on from that point.
Barb
Make sure you keep an eye on the leg for ANY sign of infection. Actually I would be giving a mild herbal antibiotic at this point if she broke the skin. It usually doesnt fester until its too late and the infection is well into the leg. I've had this happen and the dog had to be crated for a week.
Jetndre, I applaud you for doing what you do and for coming here and following up. I don't think that anyone is blaming here just trying to do what's best for Sunsilver and her dog. I will say that the dogs I've worked with don't usually show their true colors for about 2 weeks or so, once they have settled in and start to feel comfortable. Mastiff's take about 3 months...Some are on their best behavior others just the opposite. I try and ignore dogs the first few days but set the rules so they know what is expected of them. Once some time has passed, I see what they have for obedience and how well the dog responds to humans. Do they have any respect for humans? This is where I know whether the dog can be redirected. Ones that fail this test are not adopted out.
It could have been that Gracie was on a tight leash and she could feel the apprehension before she even met your other dog. You, by no fault of your own, may have set her up to fail. But now you know and can work from that.
And to answer your question....."However, don't predators go for the upper leg to bring a game animal down?" Don't over think why she did it. The fact is that she did. You now know that she is aggressive with other dogs and move on from that point.
Barb
by Annapolisa on 01 April 2013 - 14:04
About the male dog of concern here, I recommend he be neutered immediately. That could reduce the aggression and territoriality. It worked with a male I rescued a few years ago out of very similar circumstances and the same reasons - uncontrolled aggression. With firm, fair handling, tons of exercise and positive feedback from me and my other male GSD, he has become a good-natured, go-everywhere dog. I redirected his tendency to bite to carrying a ball, which he could mouth. Now, whenever he feels himself getting edgy, he goes and finds a ball (as opposed to in the beginning when I would give one to him) - and it acts like a soother.
There is hope for this dog in the right, understanding hands.
There is hope for this dog in the right, understanding hands.
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