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by missbeeb on 22 April 2010 - 05:04
Dear God... what are they breeding in your country, Prager?
by AmbiiGSD on 22 April 2010 - 06:04
Take the blinkers off Missbeeb... they're breeding them in yours too!
by noddi on 22 April 2010 - 07:04
ambii morning.i totally agree with you.most of the animals over here in the uk are sound,but some obviously arent.the 1st 2 pics are obviously wolves,the 3rd pic,that animals hocks appear to be extremely long to me and it appears very unsound.the 4th pic..this animal looks ugly to me.the topline is no way correct and for once i would not say its THE STACK.Misbeeb i take it that this 4th pic was actually one of the classified ads here on PDB,as it looks familiar to one i,ve seen which was defo.on this board.most of the animals in these ads have lookes pretty pleasing to my eyes,but some....WELL I,VE BEEN HORRIFIED,and these have been of the german/european origion not alsatians or AKC shepherds.i do feel that some breeders over here ARE PRODUCING ANIMALS WITH BACKLINES WHICH DROP TO STEEPLY FROM JUST BEHIND THE WITHERS.Carole Spelman.
by AmbiiGSD on 22 April 2010 - 07:04
Morning Carole :)
The problem will never go away unfortunatly, not whilst people are breeding dogs to win in the ring...breeding type to type....breeding for whatever is the latest 'Type/trend/fashion' doing the winning.
Too many people are followers, with no mind or imagination of their own, they breed for the glory of winning. And no I'm not just getting at showlines, you see it in both if not all sides.... GSD's bred for Sport, Alsatians, whatever your type is or whatever camp it is that folks sit in.
Somewhere along the line the all round working dog, a dog that could turn it's paw to anything, from tending a flock all day, to helping a blind person, to protecting a police officer dealing with a riot was forgotton about.
Yes I'm being 'extreme' and in a way generalising, but until folks stop breeding specifically for ONE thing.... be it 'movement' 'type' 'Angulation' 'No butts' it won't go away.
People need to encompass the whole dog and there are far too many people that can't see 'The whole dog' Just reading this board on a daily basis shows that and them for who they are.
From my POV that Beautiful picture of the showline bitch in full trot.... beautiful utterly beautiful... for a show dog, plainly bred to win in the ring today.... but what about tomorrow?
The problem will never go away unfortunatly, not whilst people are breeding dogs to win in the ring...breeding type to type....breeding for whatever is the latest 'Type/trend/fashion' doing the winning.
Too many people are followers, with no mind or imagination of their own, they breed for the glory of winning. And no I'm not just getting at showlines, you see it in both if not all sides.... GSD's bred for Sport, Alsatians, whatever your type is or whatever camp it is that folks sit in.
Somewhere along the line the all round working dog, a dog that could turn it's paw to anything, from tending a flock all day, to helping a blind person, to protecting a police officer dealing with a riot was forgotton about.
Yes I'm being 'extreme' and in a way generalising, but until folks stop breeding specifically for ONE thing.... be it 'movement' 'type' 'Angulation' 'No butts' it won't go away.
People need to encompass the whole dog and there are far too many people that can't see 'The whole dog' Just reading this board on a daily basis shows that and them for who they are.
From my POV that Beautiful picture of the showline bitch in full trot.... beautiful utterly beautiful... for a show dog, plainly bred to win in the ring today.... but what about tomorrow?
by missbeeb on 22 April 2010 - 08:04
What shows do you go to Ambi where you see dogs like that being placed? I've been up and down the UK at shows and I DON'T see dogs like this! Yes, an odd few are extreme... but only an odd few! Unsound (hocky) dogs are also in the minority, but we still see some and the odd judge will still put them up!
That beautiful showline bitch you mention, will be learning SchH... she's been bred with working ability in mind too! (Not midnight trials) Your assumptions of people, their knowledge and their dogs, do you no favours; you've lumped us all in with what you think we breed / show, accuse us (me anyway) of wearing blinkers and then ask, what about tomorrow" as though we had no thought of it! Thanks!
by AmbiiGSD on 22 April 2010 - 09:04
Missbeeb you don't need to go to shows to see dogs like that.
That's my whole point.... and why I'm taking the general view, the bigger view I'm looking at the breed through the wider angled lens.
I'm not looking for favors, I have no intentions of making myself all cosy with the in crowd. I have my own mind, my own knowledge and the guts to speak it! I don't need to make assumptions, I've been around long enough to see it with my own eyes from all sides of the fence!
The problem is objectivity there's a distinct lack of it.... people need to step back and look objectively at the whole breed.
Yes I'm generalising again ...so slap me! But it's far easier to generalise, when it's the minority that aren't wearing the blinkers.
That's my whole point.... and why I'm taking the general view, the bigger view I'm looking at the breed through the wider angled lens.
I'm not looking for favors, I have no intentions of making myself all cosy with the in crowd. I have my own mind, my own knowledge and the guts to speak it! I don't need to make assumptions, I've been around long enough to see it with my own eyes from all sides of the fence!
The problem is objectivity there's a distinct lack of it.... people need to step back and look objectively at the whole breed.
Yes I'm generalising again ...so slap me! But it's far easier to generalise, when it's the minority that aren't wearing the blinkers.
by missbeeb on 22 April 2010 - 09:04
So where DO you see these dogs?
I'm not looking for favors, I have no intentions of making myself all cosy with the in crowd. That was not the suggestion, Ambi... I meant that it could make you look rather bigoted.
I know many people in this breed who look at the bigger picture and breed accordingly, I'm sorry there are so many posters on this forum who seem to think such people don't exist and that none of us consider any issues other than showing. I'm sorry that you don't want to "get cosy" (whatever that's about)... though I think I can safely say that I'm not in any "in crowd"... if such a thing exists?
I think I'm done with this... I feel like I've been trying to nail jelly to a tree!
by AmbiiGSD on 22 April 2010 - 10:04
You feel like you're trying to nail jelly to a tree??
Where do you see these dogs? Open your eyes and look around you!
Bigoted? if I'm bigoted against people that breed animals, any animals for one extreme without taking the whole animal into consideration, merely because thats the trend of the moment... Guilty as charged!
Now I'm off to buy some roofing felt as I know when I nail that to the new shed, it will stay put!
Where do you see these dogs? Open your eyes and look around you!
Bigoted? if I'm bigoted against people that breed animals, any animals for one extreme without taking the whole animal into consideration, merely because thats the trend of the moment... Guilty as charged!
Now I'm off to buy some roofing felt as I know when I nail that to the new shed, it will stay put!
by missbeeb on 22 April 2010 - 10:04
Hmmm... nope, you're bigoted and guilty because you accuse without knowing what people breed, it's your assumption, Ambi. You also assume that "we" look no deeper / further than the showring and again, you're wrong! Maybe you've been wearing the blinkers you accused me of sporting?
Whatever we believe, it's certain that we'll get nowhere in-fighting (hope that's not too cosy?), if it's breed improvement we all want, we need to find common ground and work from there. I really don't want to bitch and fight and my guess is that most people feel like that. We all love our dogs, we all want them to be healthy and correctly constructed... right?
by Pretorian on 22 April 2010 - 11:04
Here we go again !!!!.
This argument is never going to end. The fact that bothers me the most is wenever there is a difference of opinion, somebody or the other goes ahead and puts a photograph of a showline dog which is an exaggerated form of how the dog is NOT supposed to be.
I fail to understand, is it that we are trying to say there are problems only with Showline German Shepherds...and all working line German Shepherds are superb in anatomy and temparament. I don't think so!!..
I am sure there are working line dogs out there who are bad on structure and temperament. Everytime pasting a photograph of a wolf to signify what the dog shld look like is wrong!!!. Next time paste a photograph of a Hyena thts also got its own pros and cons.
Love your dogs...instead of arguing who is better. I love SL and WL German shepherds. The only thing that i look for is how strong the structure is. The dog should be balanced...poised and intelligent.
As long as breeders are responsible and breed right dogs, irrespective if its a SL or a WL dog they will be good.
Rahul
This argument is never going to end. The fact that bothers me the most is wenever there is a difference of opinion, somebody or the other goes ahead and puts a photograph of a showline dog which is an exaggerated form of how the dog is NOT supposed to be.
I fail to understand, is it that we are trying to say there are problems only with Showline German Shepherds...and all working line German Shepherds are superb in anatomy and temparament. I don't think so!!..
I am sure there are working line dogs out there who are bad on structure and temperament. Everytime pasting a photograph of a wolf to signify what the dog shld look like is wrong!!!. Next time paste a photograph of a Hyena thts also got its own pros and cons.
Love your dogs...instead of arguing who is better. I love SL and WL German shepherds. The only thing that i look for is how strong the structure is. The dog should be balanced...poised and intelligent.
As long as breeders are responsible and breed right dogs, irrespective if its a SL or a WL dog they will be good.
Rahul
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