Should SV do away with Schutzhund and replace it with PSA? - Page 5

GSDSTUDENT: May I lay a track for that cocker spanial? I would love to see him out track my GSDs!! I will buy lunch for the trainer/ handler and dinner if that animal is HOT. The true ability of the dog in the track can not always be seen at the club level. I have had "Rain man'' once lay a track for me and Stevie Wonder has done a couple for me at competitions.

But did you get a "peer review" done of your dog yet, gsdstudent.....with maybe a couple of trained high-drive field Labradors to compete with ?  You seem to lay out the "peer review" term at every nook and corner but seems like, of late, its over-use has started to make it grow a bit stale. 

Also, have you tried working with a high-drive field Labrador ?  Along with my 2 GS, I also have a field Labrador (pictured below).  If you have any clue about the capabilities of a field Lab, you would not be issuing such empty challenges.  The field Labradors (as opposed to the couch potato Conformation Labradors - the same difference as a WL GSD and a Showline GSD) can go on-and-on-and-on for however long it takes, through whatever terrain you can throw at it, land or water, rain or snow, and nab what it is sent after......as far as noses are concerned, there is none better anywhere in the dog world (including the GS you quoted above) and you better believe that, before going about spouting your challenges.

The way you motivate the field Labrador is different from that of a GSD (2 entirely different temperaments) but for sheer ferocity of the drive and tenacity, you will be shocked if you happen to pit your GSD against one of those Field Labradors, and see your GSDs come up woefully short.  Now protection is a whole different aspect, where the amiable Labrador is definitely not in his element, and the GSD is right at home.

aaykay... You just stated the Labrador has the best nose in the dog world. I guarantee that statement is FALSE. You might consider doing some research of your own. In fact the labrador isnt even in the ballpark for having the best nose or "cold nose" as it is referred to among hunter. Thus is the reason it is a RETRIEVER and not a HOUND. According to AKC i believe the BLOODBOUND has the best nose with the basset hound following. I personally know of a strain of bluetick hounds that can follow a day old track and some years back seen one take a track that was 2 days old. A rule of thumb when it comes to how good a dogs nose is.... The longer the ears the better the nose.

This strain of bluetick hounds will also strike game from a moving vehicle driving 60mph down the road from their custom made dog crate known as a "RIG BOX". A dog box/crate with portholes in the side so dogs can stick their head out and wind/airscent game which has crossed a road. I can assure you the optimal speed for this type of hunting is not 60mph but 20-30 is the norm. I would even challenge your average akc bloodhound against these dogs. And another thing that needs to go along with a nose like this is brains. It does it no good if cant figure out which way to go and have enough sense to not backtrack when scent goes cold such as trailing from dense forest where scent is good to an open sun baked field where there is much less scent. Of course experience will help in that dept. We hope :) These dogs dont have the luxury of handler aid.

broken record time. peer review. network. comunication. sharing. mentoring. maintaince of the breed. All ideals a strong national and international union can provide. I have had only GSDs for breeding and a few other breeds as pets in over 42 years of owning dogs and over 38 years of receiving pay for working with all breeds of dogs. A good accountant would most likely talk me out of breeding dogs. I put way too much time and money into the GSD to get much respect from a businessman.                    That being said I go back to the point of this thread. Should the SV use PSA as a breed prerequeisite?  I do not care much about the Lab breed other than I will tell you the temperment and charactor of the breed pleases me enough to think if GSDs ever were out of the picture I could own one. I do not see much reason to bring that breed into this thread. Cocker Spaniel is an insult to the ideal of the German Shepherd breed and a perfect example of a very poor breeding program. The Cocker breed took a hunting breed into the show ring and gave it so much hair that a breed champion could not even enter a field without being hopelessly tangled in a thicket. A perfect example of a breeding plan with no peer review because even Elmer Fudd could tell a breeder that'  '' dog don't hunt''.                             The Mali point warrents respect since the GSD was once a Mali, look at a picture of Hector v Swaben and other orginal GSD and  deny that.                                     I keep trying to be the voice of reason on these debates. Has anyone taken in to consideration how difficult it is to have a peer review on breed valued specimens? To see the valueof this,  all you have to do is look at the American Shepherd [ misnamed GSD ] or the Shiloh Shepherd. Both of these examples are breeding programs  directed by personal motivations or greed. these programs are not adhereing to a breed standard.          Go back on any PSA's dog's pedigree [ GSD]  and you will see somebodys effort at sport training shaping the current generations behavior. I must admit that the breed is mis-managed by national clubs including the SV. But I can still find, breed, buy a GSD to fit my purposes which included a realistic type Schutz  Hund. I seperate the german words to demonstrate that Schutz  hund is protection dog in that language.                i must ask if the sport is abondoned could PSA possibly support several hundred more american breeders? Several thousand German breeders? hundred of thousands breeders world wide? Why reinvent the wheel. Get involved at a local club level, join and particapate in a national club but do not drink the kool aid. This wheel might be a little off center, but an educated membership could right the direction.

Gustav I understood what you meant. I just wanted be silly a little. Nevertheless I hear many times  from LE agencies that one of the reason why they getting Malis is  the better health of Malinois.  I sell both Mali's and GSDs in tens of dogs and even so I sell more GSDs then Mals  my experience is that the sick ones are Malinois in 10:1 ration  Mal : GSDs.  I know of  several Mals with kidney failure, seizures, panus and so on.   This was discovered mainly in prescreening before delivery. The problem was so severe that Jiri of jinopo was on the brink of decision not to deal with malis. Thus I would be curious to see any statistic saying  otherwise or I must believe at least based on my experience that this not truth and it is   perpetuated around as urban legend for what ever reason. 
Prager Hans

Vomeisenhaus,
Could you pm me with the breeder  of the strain of blueticks you are talking about as I hunted Grand Nite Champion Rudds Long Creek Driver in the 60's that could constantly strike from the back of the truck driving down the road. People came from all over the south to see if he could. He was the best dog I ever handled. And I competed against 4 world champions.

Hank

Hello hank... His name is brian hortemiller. He is a very good friend of mine. He has a website hortemillerbluebloodlines.com. Kurt

IPO is what you make of it... no ifs ands or buts about it. One thing is for certain. i can watch a video of an IPO trial and see which dogs i would like further knowledge of and those i wouldnt walk across the street to inquire about. :)

mistake 

Well trained tracking dog of any breed I have seen, who hits trail under 90* can determine instantly to 10 feet which direction the person walked. Do not ask me how they know  but it is so. I think it is because the heel disturbers the ground different way then toe. Nevertheless I am saying this because tracking ability of the dog does not really depends on the quality of a nose but on drives and their development during training through proper motivation.  Thus any reasonable breed has nose good enough for the job. 
Prager Hans