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by cwyldy on 05 May 2010 - 13:05
That's just WRONG! LOL, although, the adult picture looks just like a sable working dog. But why would they breed the weird colors if it is still going to be a sable? I don't get it. I had hoped that the "designers" would leave the shepherds alone. Guess not.
by Wildmoor on 05 May 2010 - 17:05
Ducktoller some of those dogs look like working collie crosses and malamute crosses certainly not a true GSD.
by Wildmoor on 05 May 2010 - 20:05
Take a look at this link and look at show all theutonagansociety.com/gallery
Anything look familiar????
Anything look familiar????
by missbeeb on 05 May 2010 - 20:05
Hi Pam, yes!
by k9pines on 05 May 2010 - 23:05
Wildmoor, I am referring to Willis's newest book. You really should do more reading on CDA as what you put in the above message is inaccurate. It does not affect liver. In fact liver is NOT a dilute it is an incomplete black.
For info on liver:Scroll down to the brown information: http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dilutions.html
For latest info on CDA from the same geneticist: http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogconditions.html
It has been noted in some lines of blues and those lines are being avoided by most. I personally have not had an incident with it and would alter anything that produced it.
NOSES: Noses of liver are deep chocolate brown, so dark they can appear black, Noses in blues are so deep blue, so dark they can appear black as well. THEY ARE NOT PINK, thus no concerns for CANCER :-)
Please provide documentation on "those that are severely inbred on known producers of major health conditions just so the breeders can produce an abnormal colour". Reciting something you have been spoon fed is not proof.
The MITF has and does occur in many breedings, one of which the same person responsible for changing the AKC standard said she produced herself. The MITF can produce small amounts of white or lots of white. It is a recessive and all it takes is pairing the 'right' dogs to get it.
Melisa
For info on liver:Scroll down to the brown information: http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dilutions.html
For latest info on CDA from the same geneticist: http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogconditions.html
It has been noted in some lines of blues and those lines are being avoided by most. I personally have not had an incident with it and would alter anything that produced it.
NOSES: Noses of liver are deep chocolate brown, so dark they can appear black, Noses in blues are so deep blue, so dark they can appear black as well. THEY ARE NOT PINK, thus no concerns for CANCER :-)
Please provide documentation on "those that are severely inbred on known producers of major health conditions just so the breeders can produce an abnormal colour". Reciting something you have been spoon fed is not proof.
The MITF has and does occur in many breedings, one of which the same person responsible for changing the AKC standard said she produced herself. The MITF can produce small amounts of white or lots of white. It is a recessive and all it takes is pairing the 'right' dogs to get it.
Melisa
by Wildmoor on 05 May 2010 - 23:05
Read my post where did I state CDA relates to liver can you not read? You said there were no conditions relating to colour when there are!
the noses are not black though are they as per standard?
Which new Book? ISBN number?
You still havent answered my other questions yet have you?
the noses are not black though are they as per standard?
Which new Book? ISBN number?
You still havent answered my other questions yet have you?
by k9pines on 05 May 2010 - 23:05
Wildmoor,
You misquoted what you read on my website so here is a link with the correct information on Willy Wonka.
It is on 2 pages; http://www.k9-pines.com/index_files/Page510.htm and www.k9-pines.com/index_files/Page1365.htm
Films can be done at any age, BVA can be done @ 12 months (I think). Willy was done at 18 months. His results are OFA Fair Normal Elbows, no excuses needed. His brother here in the states is also OFA Fair. Willy is NOT related to either of the parents being discussed that produced the piebalds.
I REPEAT WILLY WONKA NOR HIS REALATIVES ARE NOT RELATED TO THE PARENTS TO THE LITTER THAT PRODUCED THE PIEBALDS. So, not even sure why he is being talked about.
Since you do not sign your posts and I have no clue who you are it would be nice to see what you are working with. Although please know I will not judge you or your dogs as GOD is the only person who has that right in my eyes.
In closing Wildmoor, these colors and patterns are within the GSD gene pool. The reasons you are hearing more about it today than before is due in part because of the internet and the other part is because DNA can authenticate parentage so people that do have these colors/patterns can show that they are not the result of a fence jumper.
The sire to my litter was not born at my kennel and neither was the dam. They are totally unrelated from 2 different kennels and blood lines. I have others from the same blood lines as do other breeders. Those that show in conformation and train for other sports. My dam has a solid black 1/2 brother who is a UKC Champion. The breeders that they came from have been working with GSD for many years and GSD are the only breeds they work with.
Melisa Smith
www.k9-pines.com
You misquoted what you read on my website so here is a link with the correct information on Willy Wonka.
It is on 2 pages; http://www.k9-pines.com/index_files/Page510.htm and www.k9-pines.com/index_files/Page1365.htm
Films can be done at any age, BVA can be done @ 12 months (I think). Willy was done at 18 months. His results are OFA Fair Normal Elbows, no excuses needed. His brother here in the states is also OFA Fair. Willy is NOT related to either of the parents being discussed that produced the piebalds.
I REPEAT WILLY WONKA NOR HIS REALATIVES ARE NOT RELATED TO THE PARENTS TO THE LITTER THAT PRODUCED THE PIEBALDS. So, not even sure why he is being talked about.
Since you do not sign your posts and I have no clue who you are it would be nice to see what you are working with. Although please know I will not judge you or your dogs as GOD is the only person who has that right in my eyes.
In closing Wildmoor, these colors and patterns are within the GSD gene pool. The reasons you are hearing more about it today than before is due in part because of the internet and the other part is because DNA can authenticate parentage so people that do have these colors/patterns can show that they are not the result of a fence jumper.
The sire to my litter was not born at my kennel and neither was the dam. They are totally unrelated from 2 different kennels and blood lines. I have others from the same blood lines as do other breeders. Those that show in conformation and train for other sports. My dam has a solid black 1/2 brother who is a UKC Champion. The breeders that they came from have been working with GSD for many years and GSD are the only breeds they work with.
Melisa Smith
www.k9-pines.com
by k9pines on 05 May 2010 - 23:05
Noddi,
The MITF gene occurs in canines as a recessive. The last time I checked GSD are canines. Do you know that many dogs used in creating the GSD had white on them? Which stands to reason as to 'how' this recessive, much like the white, blue, and liver are STILL in the gene pool, as they were there from the beginning.
Would love to see your dogs too, but again I will not pass judgment on them or what you choose to breed, that is your choice.
If you do not like the feminine AKC American show style head, do not work with it. I happen to like it.
Brush coat is a term I use to describe the length of the hair, like brushes with bristles. It is a term that people can relate to.
As for the blue, liver, etc... being a 'fad' they are not. They are and always have been apart of the gene pool. Now science has made it possible to know they are not genetically inferior as once thought due to their color.
Chocolate labs are Chocolate for the same reason Liver GSD are Liver, they are affected by the dd gene. There are no health associations with the dd gene. Many other breeds also have this color and they are embraced, not culled.
Melisa Smith
www.k9-pines.com
The MITF gene occurs in canines as a recessive. The last time I checked GSD are canines. Do you know that many dogs used in creating the GSD had white on them? Which stands to reason as to 'how' this recessive, much like the white, blue, and liver are STILL in the gene pool, as they were there from the beginning.
Would love to see your dogs too, but again I will not pass judgment on them or what you choose to breed, that is your choice.
If you do not like the feminine AKC American show style head, do not work with it. I happen to like it.
Brush coat is a term I use to describe the length of the hair, like brushes with bristles. It is a term that people can relate to.
As for the blue, liver, etc... being a 'fad' they are not. They are and always have been apart of the gene pool. Now science has made it possible to know they are not genetically inferior as once thought due to their color.
Chocolate labs are Chocolate for the same reason Liver GSD are Liver, they are affected by the dd gene. There are no health associations with the dd gene. Many other breeds also have this color and they are embraced, not culled.
Melisa Smith
www.k9-pines.com
by k9pines on 05 May 2010 - 23:05
ducktoller,
None of those dogs are Panda Pattern German Shepherds.
Here is the link to learn more about what the Panda gene:
www.pandashepherds.com/genetic_panda_info
Melisa Smith
www.k9-pines.com
None of those dogs are Panda Pattern German Shepherds.
Here is the link to learn more about what the Panda gene:
www.pandashepherds.com/genetic_panda_info
Melisa Smith
www.k9-pines.com
by Wildmoor on 05 May 2010 - 23:05
Firstly I did not get the information from your website I copied and pasted what you wrote yourself on another UK GSD forum!
I am aware that pre-lims can be done at any age under OFA, but grading is done at 2 years
BVA is 12 months +1 week, both you and the person that is likely to have notified you of this thread are aware of who I am as are others on this database, it was you who came onto the UK GSD forum that I have quoted you from last year sometime defending the person who imported this liver or as she calls it 'chocolate' if not why as she been asking people for my email address?
Once again you have omitted to answer any off my questions!
Isnt this MITF gene related to deafness in some breeds? when it mutates.
I am aware that pre-lims can be done at any age under OFA, but grading is done at 2 years
BVA is 12 months +1 week, both you and the person that is likely to have notified you of this thread are aware of who I am as are others on this database, it was you who came onto the UK GSD forum that I have quoted you from last year sometime defending the person who imported this liver or as she calls it 'chocolate' if not why as she been asking people for my email address?
Once again you have omitted to answer any off my questions!
Isnt this MITF gene related to deafness in some breeds? when it mutates.
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