SV website announcement Team Marlboro Jaguar - Page 6

Uli,

I fight fraud on this site on a daily basis.  I keep pushing the site owner to find ways to fight fraud in the ads, as I see this as a huge problem for foreign breeders and buyers alike. It does not take many people getting scammed out of thousands on fraudulent ads to begin to really not trust the ads or for that matter buying overseas.


I am human and I make mistakes everyday, I try to always learn something from those mistakes but sometimes the lessons pass me by, on this busy site. I will say this, had I to do this over I would have probably made the same decisions with the info that was present. Whether wrong or right--I still have to make those decisions. It doesn't mean I don't feel for the people who were frauded. It does not mean that I support the fraudster. It does not mean I don't care about the dogs. All it means is I had to make the decision.   BTW, I do not have an email account for PDB. If someone ever needs to pass on a document--they need to contact me by PM to find out how that is done.

I have no doubt Jantie is a hard working man obviously with plenty of passion for what he believes. I still have decisions to make with the limited info available and I honestly try to make the best decisions I can. The main reason I brought the PMs up was to show I can't communicate in private with someone who is going to post private communuications on their website. So, really for me to try and communicate with Jantie is futile.

Very good post dog1, I wholeheartedly agree. The moderator was correct in deleting the posts which made very serious speculations about future decisions of the SV. They may on this occasion turn out to be correct, however that does not mitigate the wrong done by those serious speculations at the time they were made. Jantie makes numerous speculative allegations which never come true, or partially come true. That does not in any way justify speculative allegations about any named dog or person. Hindsight is a fine thing, but no one has foresight, they can only assume or express an opinion, and they must great care with such assumptions when people are named or dogs are named. To make an assertion as if FACT of your opinion or speculative assumption will always be wrong.

from the SV site    http://www.schaeferhund.de/site/ 
 

SV-HG (01/12)

 

Important Information! (Supplement to Information "News 01/12")
for the boys' team Marlboro Jaguar "(father of the winner in the JHKL males of the SV-Federal Winner Show 2011) has since been carried out by the official authorities in Sweden by a second X-ray of the dog and it was determined that it is the first recording from Sweden and the second examination by the same dog.

For this reason, the findings in Sweden awarded "average ED" to be regarded as binding and the findings accorded in Germany must be deprived. Consequently, the "V" rating from last year's SV-Bundessiegerzuchtschau and Ankoerung be disallowed for the males.

About the possible ramifications of this process, we will inform you immediately.

Your
SV ​​head office

Wow!  Ulli, thank you coming back to clarify this and clear it up.  It would appear Jante was right all along regarding this.  Ulli, you are a true gentleman.

Jim


 

Clearly there are different levels of "comprehensive understanding"

I thank my friends for their moral support in my battle to clean the Augean stables. I appreciate it big time!

I can understand some people have problems understanding my agenda. I guess most of them have no idea whatsoever what goes on in Germany, and they can't follow my daily battle, my Weblog sadly enough is only in German. Maybe I should have communicated more on PDB. Then people would have another understanding and they would not lynch me before they have read the many stories and the tons of inside information.

For your information (and there is only ONE level of understanding here!) I have added THIS on my Weblog today:

"Wenn es auch noch eine Weile dauern wird, bevor der SV seine Entscheidung im Bezug auf die Nachzuchteintragungssperre aller Nachkommen von Jaguar bekanntgibt, verliert die Zuchtgruppe vom Zwinger “Team Marlboro” gleichzeitig den 9. Platz bei den Zuchtgruppen der Siegerschau 2011 in Nürnberg, und zwar bereits durch die Aberkennung der “V”-Bewertung sowie die Ankörung des Rüden Team Marlboro Jaguar. Dadurch dass Jaguar (und später auch Harley) aus der Wertung fliegt (fliegen), genügen die übrig gebliebene Hunde auch nicht mehr die geforderten Kriterien einer Zuchtgruppe!"

I'm sorry I can't help it that SV-information is always slow and comes ages after my reports.
To the friendly Mod: I will come back on my quote you posted earlier - same story = within the SV it takes ages before things are OFFICIAL, but you will recall my words when things are finally published.

You all have a nice day!

Whenever there is a lot of money involved there will be people that find a way to cheat the system, I was told  years ago the biggest UK kennel had a long coat with a very low hip score, this dog was X-rayed many times at different vets and each time he had a new name.

Mr.  Jantie  

thanks for the  informations 

Ulli,
I just skimmed through this continuous thread and felt compelled to answer you (and not Jantie who only comes out to attack me and has nothing of merit to use against me).
I did not want to use the owner's name, but you did - so that is fine. Mrs. Lindner certainly had the right to ask for a refund (not compensation of occured medical fees as this was her choice to make) and received an adequate amount as would be outlined under German Consumer Protection Law (Verbraucherschutz). It remotely reminds of a certain situation regarding a dog named Indiana! Anyway, this is not what caused me to comment on this situation earlier. When reading through Mrs. Lindner's communication with the SV, a level headed person can only wonder how patient the SV has been with her and her "quest" to do something about the fact that her dog was diagnosed with HD. The SV did what she wanted them to do - put a breed ban in her papers! They further took care of the paper trail (it might be a little confusing for outsiders as obviously the breeder had a broker or other person who owned the litter)! Mrs. Lindner accused the breeder of violating the "Tierschutz" (Animal Protecion Act) because he dared to offer her a replacement. She accused him of wanting her to put Charlotte to death since she could not very well take on another dog. Further, she demanded that the SV will change the "Genetics". When they pointed out that the previous x-rays could not be used as the dog was not old enough, she accused the SV of not caring enough about genetic diseases in our breed. When she finally complied and got the dog re-xrayed at the appropriate age (after all regulations are there for all to uphold and not to be used at will), she got uptight when the results were not published fast enough. The SV (ever so patiently) explained that the deadline to publish was already expired when the x-rays were submitted and that she would be able to find it in the next edition. They finished their last correspondence very politely by telling her that this would be the last reply to her. For anybody who reads German, the whole exchange is published on Jantie's blog. In my opinion, Mrs. Lindner's tone was very inappropriate and accusatory. She even dragged the hernia the puppy came with into the exchange. In addition, she had to warn that the mother of her puppy was meanwhile sold to the U.S. and had produced more worrysome offspring. I wonder how the new owner would feel after reading it on Jantie's blog.
Ulli, I do not know what happened to you since I have not communicated with you for a while, but I certainly was surprised to find you mentioned on Mr. Jantie's blog. Whatever it is, I am sorry and hope that you are not too bitter. Maybe, one of theses days we have a chance to catch up.
As to the ongoing situation with Jaguar: Yep, somebody was caught cheating (again). I hope that the SV will be able to do something about it. If it was in Denmark (or Sweden), the ball will be in the court of the respective kennel clubs. For anybody who is naive to think that this is new, look at the past. Cheating has always occured (even during the reigns of Martin, or Rummel, or Funk and von Stephanitz). The chance of exposure was remote at best, however. Back then, there was no re-xraying or DNA or even elbow certifications. I want to (sadly) bet that a lot of these pedigrees are fraud which are out there. Vaguely, a sterile top producer from the past comes to mind - everybody knew about it but there was nothing to be done. Evidence is needed to prove fraud!
As to worrying about Harley: I mentioned it before and do it again. If the Swedish Kennel Club outlines in their breeding regulations that the parents have to be x-rayed and certified free of ED, only then can he be banned. When reading the announcement by the Danish kennel club, I somehow doubt it. That means that Harley, his certifications of HD and ED, his titled and ratings will all stay in place, as this was achieved on his merit, not on his sire's. The SV can only ban Jaguar's German offspring, but not the foreign one. For a level headed person, this is a normal conclusion. It will be every breeder's and puppy owner's decision to make if they want to use Harley or buy his offspring.
People also need to stop blaming forum owners, administrators and moderators for deleting posts. They can be held legally responsible for anything that is published. Naturally, they have to be careful and should not be blamed for being biased. GSD admin and the other mods are doing an admirable job here as this forum used to be a free for all! Good job, you guys!!

We should very carefully consider the SV 2nd announcement on this matter (below). Especially when you read the "Silbersee" comment above which includes the following:

"As to worrying about Harley: I mentioned it before and do it again. If the Swedish Kennel Club outlines in their breeding regulations that the parents have to be x-rayed and certified free of ED, only then can he be banned. When reading the announcement by the Danish kennel club, I somehow doubt it. That means that Harley, his certifications of HD and ED, his titled and ratings will all stay in place, as this was achieved on his merit, not on his sire's. The SV can only ban Jaguar's German offspring, but not the foreign one. For a level headed person, this is a normal conclusion. It will be every breeder's and puppy owner's decision to make if they want to use Harley or buy his offspring."

SV 2nd announcement

Important information! (Addendum to news item „Aktuell 01/12“)

Officials in Sweden have x-rayed the dog „Team Marlboro Jaguar“ (sire of the Sieger in the 18 – 24 months males on the SV-Bundessiegerzuchtschau 2011) for a second time and it was determined that the dogs on the initial and on the second x-ray are identical.

Therefor the result of „mittlere ED“(mid-level ED) that was awarded initially, is to be considered binding and the result that was awarded in Germany must be revoked. For this reason the V-rating awarded on last year’s Siegershow as well as the breed survey for this male have to be revoked.

We will inform you promptly about possible ramifications following this process.

Sincerely yours
SV-Hauptgeschäftsstelle
(SV-Main office)