Best breeding dogs don't win big events - Page 6

 Do not breed based on podium position but on the individual dog and the traits passed down that are evident in the progeny. I just bred two of our females to Mike Diehl's "Irmus" because we were inpressed with  him as a working dog and his pedigree matched up well to our females. Irmus is a working machine that has endless drives and punches you on every bite, he wants to work, but yet would Irmus score as good as he does if it wasnt for Mike???? So podium breeding theory may not apply here?? I personaly feel that Irmus demonstrates a lot of genetic traits, drives and is a hell of a dog. Please this is not an add for him I mention this because someone else mentioned him.

Chez,  Jenni

JMO, but I wouldn't describe any dog who won't 'Out' promptly as "biddable", either.

I think a dog will produce as much of what they are made up of, as what they are....some will understand the difference ..some won't. I still maintain that successful breeding is about matching two dogs together that compliment and balance each other....both from a what they are perspective and a what they are made up perspective. Truthfully, though I do primarily breed  or buy from titled dogs, I really pay minimal attention to the titles. Breeding is also about breeding for excellent progeny and producing progeny that have foundation to be able to be bred themselves to diverse studs/females. People who look for the podium winners are starting from the wrong end in my opinion.

Amen to " people who look for the podium winners are starting from the wrong end".

hundmutter, a lot of times no out is a result of tooooo much prey and has nothing to do with biddable

Duke
Isn't it a bit of a cop-out to say "I have insufficient control over my dog's prey drive" when it is the handler putting the dog into the situation in the first place ?  Just a thought, from the outside - I have never had the opportunity to work VPG/Schutzhund - but do believe GSDs were intended to be and should still be multi-purpose.  Sometimes reading threads on here it feels as though there are quite a lot of owners who so enjoy the activity and the winning in (any) Hundsport competition that they kind of forget about the dog's needs / individuality / love for it as a companion & a representative of the Breed.

Sometimes reading threads on here it feels as though there are quite a lot of owners who so enjoy the activity and the winning in (any) Hundsport competition that they kind of forget about the dog's needs / individuality / love for it as a companion & a representative of the Breed.

AMEN, Hundmutter!!  Precisely why I have just had it with breeding "working dogs"; the dog's needs as a dog are so easily forgotten in favor of the person's goals too often. Some people are great- some are mind-bogglingly callous toward the dog and think of them as nothing but a tool or their ticket to the podium. I have 3 great young dogs I am going to sell instead of keep to breed like I'd planned because I just can't stomach that mentality anymore. 

As to your other comment that you don't feel a dog who won't out is very biddable....well, duh. LOL I'm confused about what you're saying on that point. I didn't see any indication that either of us was saying a biddable dog is one who doesn't out. Totally lost on that one. 

Why does it show up all white/highlighted when you copy and paste someone's quote, even if you don't use the quote feature???

Jenni

You said:  "I don't think biddable is a bad thing."  [On which I'd agree with you]   Then you said you would " take Snoopy,
Chico etc any day, over the easily frustrated ... less naturally aggressive types that make big points"
(and take the good with the bad).

Chez said "Dogs don't Out for many reasons";  in replying, you seemed to imply that your reference to the reason Snoopy
failed ScH I (ie not coming out)  was not a consideration for you  - I accept that's not the same as actively seeking a dog that won't let go !!

Me, I was just illustrating that I don't feel dogs who won't come Out  are the "best of the best".

I've always felt that failure to train for a quick, clean definite release is an indicator that the Handler could and should have taken more time to get it right - ties in with my concern that some people enjoy the Sport and its rewards a little too highly
(there often seems a mad rush to get dogs titled while still comparitively young, for I suppose obvious reasons).

Jenni, I'm a hundred percent with you on "the dog's needs..." And the personal goals conflict of owners. When people call requesting a "top notch competition dog", I ask them what happens to the puppy if and when it gets screwed up (ninety nine percent of these people never even worked a dog in schH before, but they want a puppy for "top competition"). I'd much rather send a puppy home with someone who puts companionship as the primary purpose for wanting a gsd. I bet more dogs have been screwed up and re-homed (in other words, dumped) by owners attempting schH with them, than have been screwed up by being a family member. They should be German shepherd dogs first, "working dogs" second if that is their job.