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by cage on 11 July 2012 - 08:07
Gusmanda - here is Geischa´s pedigree http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=735696 .
by Gustav on 11 July 2012 - 10:07
Lookin at Geisha's pedigree that makes all of them have Troll/Timmy.
@Smith...everyone knows I like dogs with potential to do LE work, that is why I said I always wanted some Chicco blood in my dogs....he was and produced a more serious dog.
by smith on 11 July 2012 - 10:07
From what I understand lasco may have been more serious and produced better then Chicco ? I never met either dog in person but have talked to people that have .
by judron55 on 11 July 2012 - 10:07
I'd like to hear more about the dams of these dogs sired by Chicco and Lasco? I've seen a few Chicco progeny I've liked....!
by Gustav on 11 July 2012 - 17:07
I remember Butch Henderson had a real nice Chicco son that he trailed at our club about ten years ago. Real nice dog!
by Bundishep on 12 July 2012 - 19:07
K9gsd78 you made a good point with trials,while i like sch and i thinks its much more of a help to the breed than a hurt,how many out there that compete have a true natural retreive drive instead of someone just giving them a forced retreive training, some you can kind of tell they do it just because they have to and others it looks like they enjoy doing the retreive portion and they would get that dumbbell any place any time all the time in a hole in a tree in the water buried in the snow.etc thats the type of drive i want to breed in my dogs.
by judron55 on 13 July 2012 - 10:07
I have a male that has a natural retrieve..never forced and always ready....will search for an object without simulation from handler....not an easy trait to find....he is 4-5 Ira Korbelbach...I am placing a pup with a K9 officer today that has been retrieving a dumbbell since 5 weeks...he is now 8 months and loves the dumbbell as much as any of his other toys....the pup is 5-5 Timmy...5-5 Arek vom Stoffelblick.
by loujolly on 13 July 2012 - 14:07
In my experience (and obviously this is a gross generalization!) Tom lines show nice grips, barking and excellent tracking abilities. However, long coats, umbilical hernias and some handler soft dogs. The youngsters always look great on youtube so it is easy to sell that line. Plus there are a lot of those nice dark sables that everyone likes! I have also heard that the Orry line produces excellent herding instincts.
From Lasco I have seen quite a few very high prey, solid temperament but not enough fight for me so I would want to see some good aggression resources in the pedigree too.
Louise
From Lasco I have seen quite a few very high prey, solid temperament but not enough fight for me so I would want to see some good aggression resources in the pedigree too.
Louise
by cphudson on 13 July 2012 - 17:07
I really like Tom added into a pedigree & seen some really nice dogs for both police, sport & family protection. They seem to have strong; grips, b&h, possessive, pack drive, willingness to please, herding instinct,
devotion, & confidence. Depending on how you train the higher pack drive can cause handler conflict / more sensitive to corrections. Obedience is since but I wouldn't say they tend to be flashy.
But Tom does often lighten coat color, decrease size, add coat, etc.. if not mixed with lines that will strength in this area. Others issues listed prior on another post also. I've heard of ED but have not seen it.
The Tom offspring we've imported all had great natural protective instincts with family. They are generally not openly social dogs with strangers. I've been pleased with the ones I've seen.
We purchased a Elute grand daughter, through Bongo Vikar that I just love. She is the most protective dog we've ever owned in over 25 years. She will even defend me against being hit by snow balls. LOL
But she is the biggest mush with her family & extremely devoted. She is safe in public but not the kind of dog you bring to a dog park. Her dam line is a mix of DDR through Manto & Lord mix with Czech.
It's taking us longer than expected to earn her titles for her, because she is really more of a PPD / police type dog than a sport dog. She is train as a PPD dog & is fantastic at it.
You already see many of the top dogs in the USA hav Tom in their pedigrees, many more young dogs over seas have Tom in their pedigrees too. I think Tom / Orry will be seen in many of the future WL's.
I own a Luna Westfalensproß (Lasco sister) grand son through Falko vom Wolfsblick & dam line tightly line bred on V Dasty vom Gries. He is one of the greatest dogs we've ever been blessed to own.
Natural tracking ability, very high willingness to please, always bits full & extremely hard, natural retriever, but his B&H is something to behold. The power & spirit you can almost feel.
He has both high prey & defensive drives, also high fighting drive. It's almost comical because he is so calm & steady off the field, people normally laugh when they see us before trail / training if thy don't know him.
He'll remain calm & serious through tracking, then get really happy & more lively in obedience. But then it's like a different dog when it's time to do protection.
He is the same way at home always reliable in public, even does therapy work. He is gentle with children to the point they can literally give him a treat them open his mouth & take it back.
Kids enjoy pretending to ride him, dress him up, play vet & he must be examined from head to toe, etc. But when we go out he is always viligent on his surrounds & protecting his family.
My husband often takes him to work with him as his PPD dog, where he had to do real protection on more than one occasion.
He was being prepared for national level sport but was injured & still in rehab. We were hoping he would be ready for this trail reason this year, but it's looking more like a career ending injury.
It's a real shame, but we still love him dearly. He has produced many young dogs working in service, guide, police, SAR, & being trained for herding + sport too.
I love the lines behind him & like that he provides a good alternative to Fero / Troll / Timmy / Yoschy / Nick / Orry.
devotion, & confidence. Depending on how you train the higher pack drive can cause handler conflict / more sensitive to corrections. Obedience is since but I wouldn't say they tend to be flashy.
But Tom does often lighten coat color, decrease size, add coat, etc.. if not mixed with lines that will strength in this area. Others issues listed prior on another post also. I've heard of ED but have not seen it.
The Tom offspring we've imported all had great natural protective instincts with family. They are generally not openly social dogs with strangers. I've been pleased with the ones I've seen.
We purchased a Elute grand daughter, through Bongo Vikar that I just love. She is the most protective dog we've ever owned in over 25 years. She will even defend me against being hit by snow balls. LOL
But she is the biggest mush with her family & extremely devoted. She is safe in public but not the kind of dog you bring to a dog park. Her dam line is a mix of DDR through Manto & Lord mix with Czech.
It's taking us longer than expected to earn her titles for her, because she is really more of a PPD / police type dog than a sport dog. She is train as a PPD dog & is fantastic at it.
You already see many of the top dogs in the USA hav Tom in their pedigrees, many more young dogs over seas have Tom in their pedigrees too. I think Tom / Orry will be seen in many of the future WL's.
I own a Luna Westfalensproß (Lasco sister) grand son through Falko vom Wolfsblick & dam line tightly line bred on V Dasty vom Gries. He is one of the greatest dogs we've ever been blessed to own.
Natural tracking ability, very high willingness to please, always bits full & extremely hard, natural retriever, but his B&H is something to behold. The power & spirit you can almost feel.
He has both high prey & defensive drives, also high fighting drive. It's almost comical because he is so calm & steady off the field, people normally laugh when they see us before trail / training if thy don't know him.
He'll remain calm & serious through tracking, then get really happy & more lively in obedience. But then it's like a different dog when it's time to do protection.
He is the same way at home always reliable in public, even does therapy work. He is gentle with children to the point they can literally give him a treat them open his mouth & take it back.
Kids enjoy pretending to ride him, dress him up, play vet & he must be examined from head to toe, etc. But when we go out he is always viligent on his surrounds & protecting his family.
My husband often takes him to work with him as his PPD dog, where he had to do real protection on more than one occasion.
He was being prepared for national level sport but was injured & still in rehab. We were hoping he would be ready for this trail reason this year, but it's looking more like a career ending injury.
It's a real shame, but we still love him dearly. He has produced many young dogs working in service, guide, police, SAR, & being trained for herding + sport too.
I love the lines behind him & like that he provides a good alternative to Fero / Troll / Timmy / Yoschy / Nick / Orry.
by Gustav on 13 July 2012 - 20:07
Great post and great information Cphudson....this is kinda of post I was envisioning when I started the thread....Thx!
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