Epilepsy - Meerdyke Machk's short life - Page 6

Margaret N-J  -  There do appear to be so so many causes of epilepsy.  But in my dogs 5 generation pedigree alone, are 5 epileptic producers.  One in particular 'Lucky Silver Dollar at Rushlands' appears twice as she was mated with her own grandson. This mating produced an epileptic male dog.  To produce my dogs Dam, the sister of the aforementioned male epileptic was mated with Bricketwood Spirit of Rajah at debylyn who, with a different Dam, sired Belgran Follow Your Dream who was also epileptic.  Therefore, all 3 generations above my dog, on the dams side are all epilepsy producers.  Maybe there is a 'veneral disease', I don't know as I am not a vet, but it doesnt stop the fact that it is being bred through recent generations.  I don't think that pet buyers can be to blame for choosing a certain type of GSD.  Pet buyers are in the hands of the breeders and tend to believe what they are told.  Although I will now never buy without researching first.

Margaret - yes I was forgetting Haemophilia A  -  but look how long that took ?   And as
you say, its easier because of the pattern of inheritance - and because it isn't complicated
by people breeding FOR haemophilia, because some other colour or shape is associated
with the disease.  So its a bit different, but yes, we can remind the KC that nothing is without
precedent !  Also,  just how much attention is being paid to it NOW ?  There's very little
mention of haemophilia in all the many words and test schemes the KC have spouted since
PDE.  As a breed, we were still left rather onour own with the problem, as compared to eye
testing etc.

Rachael - great Veterinary quote, I can use that, thanks.

Hi Baileyboy

You hit the nail on the head, pet buyers are in the hands of their breeders, if they like them and want a puppy, of course they trust them to know best.  I'm not blaming people for preferring a certain type of dog or for not knowing what dogs were bred with back in the 1960's, just stating a fact.  All of us who were there back then "know" certain dogs were fitters and that it was hereditary because so many of their offspring were also fitters, but for the Kennel Club to act they need proof, not anecdotal evidence and we couldn't prove it back then and I don't believe we can prove it now.  Even if the KC could expand the range of their inbreeding coefficient service to show backmassing on suspect dogs, without proof they could be in a legal minefield if they put restrictions on a dogs registration..  I personally have no doubt your dog inherited his epilepsy from his immediate ancestors and agree the breeder should have seen the writing on the wall as soon as the first epileptic came out of the woodwork and taken steps to ensure, as far as any breeder can, that it didn't happen again, but until we have a unassailable proof that a dog carries an inherited form of epilepsy, I don't think the KC will be able to do anything except trust breeders to do the right thing.

Margaret N-J

It is a shame as everyone seems to be trusting the breeders, but who is governing them?  Who is teaching and guiding them?  Who, therefore, is accountable for producing dogs with genetic epilepsy?

I don't have an answer for that, you would think that a breeder would not need to be governed to do what is best for their puppies.  What was an actual event in my lifetime is a line on a page of ancient history to the majority of the breeders today, often overlooked or ignored becaue of the passage of time.  I believe, with breeding, you can't know where you are going unless you know where you have been and that those who will not learn from history are forced to repeat it until they do.

Margaret N-J 

Margaret N-J - I am sure that many breeder's don't need to be governed but it becomes apparent in cases such as my dog, where there should be a degree of reprimand to people who are knowingly breeding from epileptic producers and continuing to produce epileptic dogs in their lines.  So far as I can see the only ones being punished are the sick dogs and their owners.  Not to mention the great monetary costs together with the time and comittment involved with caring for an epileptic dog.  It just seems so unfair!  The breeder has her money and I have nothing!

Having had a little think, even though Quadrille was never actually proven to have hereditary epilepsy, he was indisputably implicated in the pedigrees of other fitters.  Not sure how feasible it would be as a computer exercise, but perhaps the KC could be asked to state on the registrations of all dogs going back to him that the dog has x number of lines going back to a dog implicated in producing epileptics.  At least that would give buyers a heads up to the status of the puppy they are planning to buy and force the breeder to consider their actions as they would not have a leg to stand on if they are not transparent about it or if the pup later develops epilepsy.

Margaret N-J

Anything to make people take more care when deciding on mating dogs. 
I think probably that all the breed council researchers would have the numbers involved.  I'm sure that the KC could add a simple calculus to their database?  Where problems would arise is that different breeds will have different 'proven' producers but i am sure that if the kc worked closely with all breed councils something could be put together between them. 

If you take Quadrille as the example then you have to look at his sire which was Vondaun Quebec.  Quebec's sire was Ludwig of Charavigne and he was also the sire of Ramacon Philander.  Philander's son Swashbuckler was also widely used.  Ludwig of Charavigne was widely used to many females and his father was all German bloodlines.   During his time at stud Ludwig produced many males and females that formed the base of the breed in the UK at that time.  To what degree epilepsy has bred on through these animals we will never know.

Mackenzie

The KC recently announced it couldn't get all of the breeds to nominate representatives for the
Breed Councils Liaison Ctte  - again.  Short by about 100.  If apathy is such that they can't even
agree who should be going to meetings, they aren't gonna organise a piss-up in a brewery when
it comes to any health matters.

Never mind,  Rally is being officially recognised,

Oh gawd I'm beginning to sound like Jemima Harrison ...