Chocolate GSDs....sigh - Page 6

Dawulf, that is what I thought this thread was about! LMAO!
I've never heard of "chocolate" GSDs and it really does turn my stomach that breeders are aiming for the liver, blue and panda shepherds simply to line their pockets. And to say that we can't fight nature, well we sure as heck can work with it and avoid the pitfalls of breeding problems into the breed rather than out of it. I don't care how sweet and kind and generous you think a breeder is, if that breeder is breeding for and touting these "colors" as rare, that breeder is out for the money and you should run as far and as fast as you can away from those dogs. If you have one now, neuter it and love it but please don't breed it. And please, please don't insult my intelligence by telling me what you know about breeding when with the simple act of opening your mouth and admitting you fell for the story the breeder fed you tells me all I need to know about what you think you know.

@ Abbey Normal.......much respect!

DebSue very good post and I agree. I happen to know someone who breeds for the weird colors and according to the last time I talked to them they were trying to "fix" things with them--in other words keep the colors and make the structure better etc etc. I almost got caught up with them by not knowing how to say no when she wanted to use my boy for stud. I thought if I said no they wouldn't want to be friends with me anymore--I know I know it all sounds dumb but it is the truth. Thank God I came to my senses. And check this out--they are an AKC Breeder of Merit--that shows you right there the AKC could give a shit less about anything other than money. They think as long as they have good hips and UKC Ch that makes it all OK. I am against it with all that is in me. And in this situation where they knew the lines carried epilepsy, they should even be more ashamed. Most of the people who breed the colors are back yard breeders and will breed anything just for that reason. They don't care about the health of the dogs and anyone who supports them is in the same boat with them.......................Just my 2 cents worth................

Next time you have an innocent conversation with someone leave it at that I'm sorry but this still appears to be a witch hunt to me.  If you were all really that bothered about incorrect breeding would you not have gone to the kennel club and asked that irresponsible breeders be removed from there?  It deeply saddens me that people have so little time on their hands that they need to stoop to this sort of behaviour.  My friends dog has leukeamia, he is 3 years old and a pedigree I suppose thats the breeders fault as well.  I will now be signing off this site and will put the fact that I have wasted so much energy on it to one side.

It is sad that you were unable to accept the apology from Abbey Normal, which I believe was most sincere and showed humility, it is also very sad to hear about your friend's dog, so young, and I am sure that many people on here would be genuinely sympathetic to hear this. Many of us are like yourself are busy people, but I do admit to posting on here of late regarding Epilepsy, and make no apologies for that, as we like yourself had our three dogs, we lost two of our dogs a week between each other, Indy was aged 7 died from an adrenal tumour, lovely lad, who was a joy to live with, our other dog was 5 years old, but from the age of 2 and a half years old suffered from Epilepsy, she later on developed SLO her nails continuing to split and break, sometimes could not walk with them, and later on her beautiful coat started to fall out, when she died after suffering from 3 Grand mals the autopsy revealed what our vet thought that she also had cushings disease. Our Megan was a White Longcoat German Shepherd, she was in our eyes, one of the best, when she became very ill, the only thing that was still recognisable to us was her beautiful eyes, and her strong spirit, which sadly gave out, and she lost the battle and we lost something that was so precious to us. We wish as you have stated that it was so easy to get the KC to do something regarding these breedings but unfortunately nothing is being done,as in their words, their hands are tied, that is why speaking for myself I post on here and other groups when I can, to help people like myself, Rachael and many others who have found themselves in this position but more importantly to help those people who have dogs suffering with Epilepsy from affected lines, and to also help the breeders who do care to be able to make informed choices in their future matings. Identifying the genes responsible for Epilepsy would of course solve these issues but until we do we have to work with what we have, which is limited information, doing nothing is not the answer, as that is why we are in the mess we are in today, it took a lot of years to get to this point, where Epilepsy is rife amongst lines it will take a lot longer to sort out.
This is our story of our dog who was loved so very much by all our Family, she only suffered the way she did directly due to the Lines chosen and knowingly bred from, when they contained Epilepsy, it is not about a witch hunt it is about revealing these lines that do contain health problems and to protect future dogs from being born with needless suffering, that is our goal.

  Margaret

@hisblue
The breed clubs have for years been trying to get the KC to implement mandatory health testing which would be a start in addressing bad breeding practices. Linda (Hundmutter) is about to lobby them again. It would begin to make them health test at least, and if the KC were to refuse to register puppies from health tested parents with passing grades, that too would help. It won't stop them breeding, but at least they wouldn't be able to register them. At the moment, the KC recommends what should be done and breeders do what they please. So, we can do a little, but not a lot. I am pleased to see that if you google chocolate GSDs now, this thread comes up - that is one thing we CAN do.

It may seem like a witch hunt to you, especially if you have been told that's what it is. Believe in facts. Facts about hip scores for example are on the Kennel Club health tests results page, just put in the dogs KC registered name. Anyone can find them. If a dog has been hip scored it is there, the owner doesn't have the option of it being there or not once an xray has been submitted. That is why some hip screen and if the results don't look good, they don't score, because they can't hide it. If a dog is screened and it looks good it will be scored, a breeder wants to be able to show good scores. If a dog is screened and then not scored, well it's not rocket science.   Facts about how many litters have been registered and from what dogs and how often are available in the breed record supplements if people subscribe to them too.  Most pet owners don't.

Hereditary disease is just that, you can't see it, until the day it manifests itself. No of course not all disease can be blamed on breeders, that's not a sensible argument. Like people inherit some conditions, so do dogs, some members in a family will inherit the problem some won't. Some you can't prove are inherited, there is just a pattern and the same things keep appearing from the same lines of dogs, like epilepsy. When that happens you consider those lines affected.  Would you avoid breeding to those lines if you were breeding dogs? It's a bit of a no brainer . So why do they do it? Why do Margaret & John, and Rachael and others like them find themselves with the tragedy of epilepsy and the loss of their beautiful dogs ?  Well, you can decide for yourself, or not give it another thought.

Now if chocolate GSDs is googled by anyone, this thread will come up and hopefully, people can do a little more research and be more informed of the facts, and can then decide whether they wish to take that risk before they buy a 'novelty' chocolate GSD.

@ Linda
Some of these breeders do change direction! On a positive note, Firesrye who have a few KK and Bricketwoood line dogs have statements that they no longer include these dogs in their future breeding plans and have introduced a completely different breeding strategy with dogs from entirely different lines (not the usual coloured lines) for their future plans. They clearly love the dogs they have but are treating them as pets not to be bred from.

Hallelujah.

Abby, Whoop! Whoop! @ Fyresrye Kennel    if they follow through on that.
I may or may not shift the KC on all this, but at least the message is getting out there
and maybe we will have some more of these breeders reviewing what they are doing?

Have you seen the numbers of views this thread and the Epilepsy thread are getting !

ProgRep:   Have some electrics problems to contend with at present, but I've still got
3/4 of my letter to Steve Dean drafted ...

I think both you Hundmutter and Abby and Fyresrye are all awesome...............That is great. I hope you do make some changes and I would love to hear about you guys' progress..............I wish more would come to the light so to speak. (in all countries) I don't know why the blues, livers and whites aren't within the standard but I am sure there is a reason. I know in those blue dogs a lot of them carry that alpacea (spelling) gene. Not sure how exactly that works in the GSD but I have had a Dobe with it and it was an ongoing battle to keep hair around his head and neck...........I know the person I referred to earlier bought a male for a stud dog who carried it--eventually she did have him neutered and placed him in a pet home but not until after she had bred him several times and now has him in her lines.

Hi Vonissk
I guess we have to remember that these colours are just dilutes of a normal colour and as such not desirable (except the whites).  Personally, although they aren't my preference I have no problem with those that occur naturally within the wider gene pool, but there are those that see them as being easy to sell as 'novelties' amd set out to deliberately breed them, and therein lies the problem.  There are real health issues caused by these colour breeders utilising a small gene pool here in the UK using known epilepsy lines, which I guess you've already gathered! Also some, but by no means all, do not hip score their stock. I must be fair and say that in recent years even the 'colours' seem to have improved greatly in this area, just not this particular one it would appear. There was another notable converter from colours to german breeding that I can recall in recent years. 

Our KC are about as good as yours - useless! So don't hold your breath, but I applaud Linda for trying - yet again.

Colour dilute alopecia ?   :)