The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 6

Templars, thank you for the kudos, but your video of dogs that failed a test is not really a fair representative of the rest of the population. Plenty of WL dogs have bailed during testing, too. :-)

If the breeders do not select for proper temperament and breed for single purpose, their is no place to go but down for the breed in general.

VK4, the founders believed all breeding GSDs should have show titles to go along with their working titles. The Siegershow was there at the start of the breed and the founders believed they could steer the breed through its use.

Templar, I have seen workinglines run off the field. The dogs you posted videos of did not rise to the standard and were not allowed to be shown. Seems that you are making the case that the Siegershow is a test of character.

One  interesting point in the OPs original post was his belief that the character decline was due to the underuse of the dog and/or a lack of knowledge of the breeder, I hope Mackenzie will clarify. Max described in his book something along the line of believing a dogs learned experiences were passed to the offspring. Joanro used the term race memory if I recall correctly. How does a dog pass along its experiences to its offspring other than being tested for its ability to pass along those genes or the bitch passing her behaviour along to her pups by example. My belief is that each dog is born with a range of ability and that ability can be enhanced or suppressed by early experiences. My belief is also that each breeder should be able to train a dog in the discipline for which the breed was designed.

Marcobytes, learned behavior is passed on in the DNA. It is no longer theory, but fact.

These discussions always raise the eyebrow line.  Also, they quickly inform one who is and is not actually working their dogs or has even the faintest hint of a clue..  ;)

Anyone see that clip of the IPO Labradore Retriever?  Decent dog, maybe they should breed him into some of the showlines to improve their working qualities..lol. Would be more productive then mixing them with a WL dog.  I'm sure his owner has a really strong bond with him..probably why he can work..haha.

I have not read every page, I do not have that kind of time. I just want to say that there are dogs out there that are solid German shepherds. People need to use them in their breeding programs. Breeders are only using popular dogs to sell pups instead of forethought to the breed. Of course this is just my opinion. I have a show line that works and also has great temperament and an excellent bond with me. He is perfect health, is versatile, old idea of dominant not what people today think is dominance. He is EXTREMELY intelligent and has great discernment. He is not extremely angulated, very agile and athletic. I would be a fool to think he would ever be VA 1, I do not have time to run around promoting him for it. I however believe he is an excellent GSD. There are tons of excellent examples of gsd that do not get to the top and are never bred to because of it. He is a 24/7 service dog, ipo, and now we are also doing AKC activities. He doesn't care what I put him to doing and can change to any task like a true utility dog. I believe these dogs need to be considered. Both sides go to extremes and lost the all around utility dog IMO, My dog may never be bred unless I have a selected female for my own use. Many other great dogs are doing the same unfortunately.

Markobytes - I should have made clearer that some element of character is indeed inherited. The matter of development of the dogs character depends on the skills of owners/handlers and trainers. Many promising good dogs are ruined because of a lack of skills by experienced people and, many not very promising young dogs achieve more than expected because of these skills from experience. The newbies with their first dog (Templar please note) have to have a very steep learning curve because they lack the necessary skills to bring out the best in their dog. Many mistakes will be made along the way by dog and handler. It takes time to learn these things and many do fall by the wayside. When I first came into the breed I was lucky that I joined a very good club where the trainers were very experienced and successful in Obedience and Trials work.

Most posters here are from the working side where the emphasis is on the bite work. Other diciplines within the working qualification are only rarely discussed. They seems to be no appreciation that not all dogs are suitable for the bitework discipline. Also very shy dogs can be taught to bite but the secret is in the control of the dog.

Mackenzie

Mac: They seems to be no appreciation that not all dogs are suitable for the bitework discipline. Also very shy dogs can be taught to bite but the secret is in the control of the dog.

No, Mac, the secret is not to breed them.

Hi Susie - I take your point but I have to say that some of these dogs may be suitable and  should be considered to be used in other areas e.g. drug detection, rescue dogs, guide dogs, tracker dogs etc.  It is a question of being able to detect and use other talents of the dog.

Happy New Year to you

Mackenzie

 

 

 People who think that dogs who be titled in  IPO are real working  dogs?........... they don,t.

 

This are only poor  sportdogs doing years and years the same IPO  circus game BS

this are robot dogs.

 

 

Which breeders in the world produce  real  working GSD  and not only IPO titled dogs  can give someone me examples ???  I hope to find them maybe some very small breeders are they  exist...........???

A "shy" German Shepherd dog is NO breeding prospect, no matter about any other qualities.
I´m not saying dogs of this kind are worthless, but they are not breedworthy.

This is the main fault people are doing.

My dog doesn´t bite a sleeve, but he is good at tracking...
My dog has temperament issues, but he looks great
My dog has some allergies, but otherwise he is healthy
My dog is afraid of gun shots, but besides that he is an obedience champion
My dog is weird colored,  (missing a tooth, oversized ), but he is a great worker

I could go on and on.

Our breed is a working dog breed, and there is a minimum EVERY dog has to be capable of prior to breeding.