this is a great looking GSD! or what?? - Page 7

Eddy - you just declared picture

no 1 as " nice looking specimen "
no 2 as " nicely proportioned dog..........looks firm and powerful. "

No 1 is Visum Arminius - he was VA1 on the GERMAN SIEGERSHOW in 1996
No 2 is Lana Zenteiche -she was VA1 on the GERMAN SIEGERSHOW in 2008

THIS ARE CURRENT SHOWLINE DOGS - WINNERS - I only removed the color and the stamp of the photography - never mind - but some of you should rethink a little bit...

Susie, no I think they are too far from the dogs from the 60s in structure and not nice looking, and it only proves that what is considered beautifull has changed much and also function was important when judging a showdog in the 60s, today it´s only looks it seems.

You really believe during the sixties "...function was more important when judging a showdog..." ?

Johan, I didn´t want to blame you.
Good thing is - there are thousands of different German Shepherds out there - everybody should be able to find "his" dog.
If you like the dogs of the sixties - go for it - we are living in a free world ...
I only don´t like people blaming a dog, its working abilities, or its structure, because all they know it´s a showline, but aren´t even able to see any differences ( if there are any... )

There were no obvious working and show split in that time for sure, just look at the dogs and breeders at that time who had no problem combine both showing and working like it was the most natural thing in the world. 

Even in the 30s there have been "showlines" and "workinglines" - read the old books.
The main reason for the so called split are not the dogs and there genes, but the people.
Most of the show people train only for shows and the trials " have to be done as fast as possible " - there are a lot of real good working showlines out there, but nobody, including the owners, does care...
Most of the working people only train for trials, the show result " has to be done, no matter which result " - there are a lot of good looking working dogs out there, but nobody, including the owners, does care...
Breeders don´t want to breed showline to workingline / workingline to showline - the reasons?

• Neither show nor working enthusiasts are interested in these dogs ( too bad for them... )
• as a result puppies are more difficult to sell
• Breeders don´t have knowledge about the different lines
• In the heads of the people only a VA dog or a Siegerprüfungs winner is breed worthy
• People say they don´t know about the outcome of these breedings - BS - every breeding without linebreeding is of the same unknown outcome

yes i knda figured you were gonna do that.................trying to be sneaky.........

i think the 2 dopgs u showed looked nice but if u read ,y opther posts i think the other ones are beauties and great specimens of the breed.

but yes they are nice looking...............i like all GSD just want them to be the best they can be which is great working and looking dogs!!

Susie, but the structure of the GSD has been more or less the same for very long, and still is today in at least some of the workinglines, the big difference in structure has happened after the 60s and forward, a showwinning GSD today would probably been chased out of the ring in the 60s and vice versa. A "true" workingdog breeder is not intressted in the showlines becuase they feel both the structure and workingability of todays showlines are too far removed from their goals of a sound workingdog in mind and body, hence they have nothing to gain by mixing the lines anymore.

" A "true" workingdog breeder is not intressted in the showlines becuase they feel both the structure and workingability of todays showlines are too far removed from their goals of a sound workingdog in mind and body, hence they have nothing to gain by mixing the lines anymore. "

This kind of thinking is the reason of the split ( from BOTH sides, though ).

Forgot to say - you said: "...but the structure of the GSD has been more or less the same for very long..."
The German Shepherd Standard was written by people ( first and foremost Stephanitz ) who had an idea of a new breed. The dogs they used were far away from their own desire, out of every generation every single breeder used the dogs he liked most, be it because of working ability or be it because of structure.
There was development all the time ( no debate about good or bad at this point ) and surely will be.