Question about breeding GSD's - Page 3

Point taken...... Royal1


Only show line will never do the same kind of work as true working line GSD's, but show line is worthy dog as well..........

VHFGSD is exactly right !!  This is classic example of breeding dogs with very little knowledge thinking it will improve the breed because the dog is from titled and Ko'er parents. No knowledge of the lines, what the lines produce, if their female is representative of the fatherline or motherline??????No knowledge of the weaknesses of the lines of the parents to give you an indication what to steer away from. Making a judgement of the male on what the male demonstrates outwardly, not realizing the male could be the exception in a litter and not produce anything like he himself is whenever you do chose the male. This is insanity!! I am not trying to be mean, but you can't breed responsibly with this limitation of knowledge I don't care what the dogs look like on the outside.

It does not matter what one is breeding, dogs, cats or horses. If you introduce known undesirable traits into your program, you will eventually have to expend quite a bit of time and resources in trying to breed them back out.

Trying to get past the genetic land mines you didn't know about is difficult enough.

Of course, these things don't matter to anyone only interested in selling to a pet market.

Hope this helps, 

Rik

I know I may be slowing things down here a bit, but even if Royal lacks the knowledge to embark in a "breeding program", there are better ways to get him to learn than hurling insults and mocking his audacity.  His inquiry may be valid,  even if his knowledge base is not.  If he's likely ot breed his female, would it not be better if we gave him the benefit of our opinion and guided him through the process of learning about the breed?  By his posting times, I doubt he's in the US, and by his idiomatic expressions, I that English may be also his primary language.  I also doubt that his breeding in two years is going to seriously compete with any of the breeders who do post here.

Also, not every GSD is going to be a working or show dog.  This past week, I was in a local hospital and had the privilege of taking out for a walk the seeing-eye-dog of a patient in a neighboring room.  After taking the dog for his scheduled relief, I spoke with the owner for a bit.  Even such a dog, was primarily viewed as a companion by his owner.  My point is that sometimes being a pet may be one of the most important functions of a GSD, yet many breeders overlook this.

Gustav gets it right.  It is not the exterior of the dog that is the most important, but the Temperament component.  Royal does need to be more abundant on what he has and what he wants to achieve in a GSD and maybe realize that he may be embarking on a mission hat will take years and several generations of GSD's to achieve.

After all, as stewards of the breed, one of our duties is to promote responsible ownership of GSD's and to educate these owners and prospective breeders so the breed can recover its preeminent place.  Helping them to make solid choices in breeding (including spay/neuter recommendations) to avoid having dogs in the market that are unable to do a job, or even be reliable even as companions, may well be part of it.

Long time ago I bought GS myself with BiG ZERO knowledge, he end up oversize! but I loved him with all of my heart. I was thinking of breeding him without understanding.

Royal1 has a nice female that meets the standard, he needs help for guidance; like myself once I needed help, but I was different......

Charlie319, You are absolutely correct in your views on the stewards of the breed showing patience and availing themselves to perspective breeders with the insights they have learned over the years. My posts was not meant to be mean spirited but to shed some light on many aspects that will affect outcomes in breeding and should be considered. Sometimes my wording is probably a little strong but I mean well(smile), and am willing to help to the best of my limited knowledge. BTW, I didn't even factor in if the female or possible male stud were showline or workingline. I hope to live to see the day that GS are not judged by the color of their coat but the content of their temperament.

Charlie, You state "If he's likely ot breed his female, would it not be better if we gave him the benefit of our opinion and guided him through the process of learning about the breed?" yes probably would BUT that's NOT what he was looking for. This is a man who did NOT come to the board and say I'm new, I'm trying to learn, help me. This is a person who came to this breed with dollar signs in his eyes and with a bitch too young to breed and not even proven breed worthy ( if he even knows what that means) but damn the torpedos and full speed ahead we're going to breed her anyway whether she should or should not be bred and regardless of that fact that I know nothing about the breed or living and raising them.

I guess I'm just getting old and crotchety. I have done my stint of mentoring and educating for decades now and it's quite easy to read who wants to learn and who doesn't give a rat's a** about doing so. And yes there is a problem with desiring JUST to produce pets as has been discussed on many threads including the one linked below. One must always be strivig for the best because Mother Nature always pushes to the median so even in a breeding planned for a very hi level dog there will always be some that are less so - those are the pets. When only breeding for pets the quality, stability and breed type disappears very very rapidly.

 I looked up another post I had made for another thread today and lo it's about the very same topic with a very similiar person. You might want to read the whole thread. You will see I did offer to help that person - not surprisingly to no avail - I noticed several months ago other board members were racking her over the coals for outrageous behavior.  I'm even willing to make Royal the same offer I made Bondo's mom if he/she takes time out to learn about the breed and work his dogs ( notice I mentioned a number of enue's NOT just schuthzund)

If nothing else I suggest you and the original poster read the two posts by TIG - a good model to follow. See the bottom of this page for Tig's two posts. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/forum/6308.html?pagen=2 

[quote]This is a man who did NOT come to the board and say I'm new, I'm trying to learn, help me. This is a person who came to this breed with dollar signs in his eyes[/quote]

Do you have proof?

I re-read TIG's post (I had read thje whole thread a few months ago while doing some research) and I see that she's had a long involvement with the breed.  That is all fine and dandy, but the fact is that not everyone is like her and every once in a while we'll see folks that think that they're going to make money with their dog by breeding it.  I dont think that Royal sees  breeding as the primary motive to get his dog, however, most people think that their dog is great and should be bred.  With time, and seeing really good dogs, reality will set in.  In the meantime, good advice might mitigate any damage.  At least it would be a lot more constructive than ticking the dog owner off so that he may go ahead and breed the dog without the benefit of at least some useful information on what blood-line or traits to seek or avoid for his particular dog.  Let's recognize taht a percentage of these people will breed their dogs anyways and try to keep the damage to the minnimum.  It's the old Churchill saying of keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

I personally, lack thedepth of knowledge on breeding to make a quick judgement and must rely on a lot of research and the good charity of others who do know what I may still have to learn.  However, I think that "pet" GSD's are not a bad idea as many of today's enthusiasts fell in love wit hthe breed with their pet GSD.   Back in the 1950's and 1960's GSD's (along with Collies) were the favorite family dog.  Now we've got Labradors (talk about messing up a breed) and  Labradoodles all over creation, while our breed becomes an even more niche breed every year because most good breeders are breeding for the show, SchH or Police market.  The problem of our breeds shallow and narrow genetic pool is of our own making.

For those who judge me, I' am sorry that my introduction here made me look bad, my intentions was not to harm nobody here and I' am learning about the breed right now and I' am trying to get help, the reason I bought this female is I decided to have quality dog for myself.

If I breen anger to some people here, I may simply go away from this forum......