Is it not possible to have an intelligent, fact based discussion ........... - Page 11

What didn't you say?  I didn't imply that you said anything.

July, When I started in this breed it was not uncommon at specialty shows for your open classes alone to have 25-45 dogs or bitches in them. And they were gaited and gaited and walked and gaited. And that might only have been a 3 point major. Today you have 4 point major ( just check the Review results) where the entire entry (all classes combined) is 14 dogs or less - many of them with only 1 or 2 dogs in a class. Somehow I don't think they get much gaiting.

Re the National. I think the entry is slightly larger than you stated but perhaps not.  Again in the "olden" days the dogs were gaited extensively. In fact one reason AKC frowned on our gaiting and the double handling was because at a GSDCA National a handler died in the ring fron a heartattack and what they did was cover him with a tarp, move the ring ropes and kept right on gaiting.

Nowdays we have a very "civilized" method of judging selects which is why it takes all day for so few. They go in all together for a few go arounds. The judge makes the intially suffling of places and then the dog are divided into groups of 10-15. The judge works one group at a time ( the others are resting) shuffles, elimiates, rests that group and moves on to the next. This will be done several times with each group so the vast majority of time is spent NOT gaiting. When they have about 2x what the select class will be then they move on an judge the bitches the same way and the males are allowed to leave the ring temporarily  - once again not gaiting all day by any remote chance and really not gaiting extensively at all. Certainly not in the sustained manner as described above for the German dogs.

In the mid90s one of the GV's was brought at the National for Herding Instinct Testing. The tester had been primed and clued that this was a dog that HAD to be passed and so of course he was after a very short go around in the round pen. The tester's comment afterwards was I had to get him our of there quickly cause I thought he would fall down if I did not ( hock walker with extreme angulation.). This dog would not have been able to endure a herding lesson never mind an hour or two or eight actually doing herding work.

Hi Rik,
Another dog worth mentioning...in regards to very nice "front"..ie upperarm and angle,..lay back of shoulder is:
Negus vom Holtkamper See.
He may not be the "type" for some......but he does have one of the best front/angles.

Robin
p.s good post.....just had the chance to see it.
Also....Hi Chris!.......see you at the NASS!

When looking at fronts, I personally initially look to see if the dogs appears 'chesty' or not. By chesty I mean is the chest well forward of the front legs & if so then it's worth a more detailed look.

Certainly not fool proof but a good starter for ten.

Good discussion - so how about the croup? I've always had trouble with this one!

Cheers,

AandA

 AanA, good idea for croups. Since this thread is getting a little long in the tooth, I will start another thread later today for this subject.

Robin, good to hear from you. Yes, Negus is very impressive as were all the groups from Zamp. I think a dog with the structure from these lines and who also shows good strong character and good biting is a very valuable animal.

Watch for the thread for Croups, as I hope to hear from sucessful people like you (and maybe Silbersee will come back).

There is too much knowledge available here for only 2 or 3 people to prevent so many from getting it.

Best,

Rik

Rik,

Here are a couple of good previous croup threads just to get you in the flow...

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/162783.html

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/172178.html

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/71239.html

AandA

Fact:  New to Schutzhund (2 years)
           Have two dogs-one HOT
       

Fact:  New to Schutzhund (2 years)
           Have two dogs-one HOT
        

Fact:  New to Schutzhund (2 years)
           Have two dogs-one HOT
         

Fact:  New to Schutzhund (2 years)
           Have two dogs-one HOT