Is it not possible to have an intelligent, fact based discussion ........... - Page 2

Jeff, I don't think you need to add your credentials.  Your experience comes through in every one of your posts.  Those who have been around a little while know and respect you. 

JMO,

Jim

Sorry Jeff, you are now on my people to "PESTER" list for when I need advice.  Maybe this takes pressure off the people I use now.

I am also a USA member and you put out a first class magazine.

Also my next planned show will be the USA event for New Orleans in December.

Congratulations for what you contribute to the GSD in the U.S.

Rik

Sure it's possible...when you want things to slant in your direction ^_^  What you want is for people to agree with you, not to have an actual discussion.

I'm working my dogs in many different events, and training for different levels.  Is SchH one of them currently?  No.  Not possible.  But my dogs get worked under gunfire, they're working retrieves, TRYING to start my boy on scent articles and glove work (he's my first trial dog, I've never taught such things before).

The new girl is working with the dumbbell and learning how to focus.

You're never going to like me, my dogs, or what I do with them, which is your perogative, but I do with them what I can as money will allow me to.

I was a USA member.  Will be again.  I just couldn't afford to renew at the time.  My choice was USA membership, or food for myself and the dogs.  I chose the latter.

I've learned a lot from Molly (I read a lot of her posts, belong to a couple lists), and several other competitors (in many venues).  But they always state things eloquently and without insult.  They do not tear apart the dogs of others simply because they can or find it enjoyable.

I can't be of much help with the Show stuff but with the working stuff I can probably always at  least point you to the proper person if I don't know. 

Feel free to pester anytime with a dog question

Thanks for the nice comments (Rik and Jim)

I find there are alot of good discussions on this board as there is some bull shit as well as some just good old fun stuff, We make life what it is and surrond our selfs with it. 

Some times to find a prince you have to kiss alot of toads.

Thank you Rik,
Because of that one expression i kinda had a hard time to understand..LOL
well I would not recognize world champ in show from a regional champ.. They look the same to me. I get fascinated about the post that ingludes the grades of shoulders. I stare at it and trully I have no clue what the hell I am looking at.. I find it frustrating. I am learning also.
I do not know absolutely anything about A/L dogs.. NOTHING, they look ugly to me and I have no use for them in my world..I like dogs with heart and desire to go out there and work their asses off.
my dog is ok looking according to my friend that has show lines, he is enough good looking for her to consider to actually breed to her females. To me that was a huge compliment. Of course she needs to put some drives in her breeding program, just like some pretty ugly working dogs need some standard so they fing a good working show dog.. it all evens out.

It all about the fun of it... my male is only Schutz 2 i want to put PSA title on him and he is practically ready.. I live in sticks and that SUCKS.. somebody wants to move here. like 20 of you so we can have more trials.. lol

I too like great discussions and would love to see more of them.

I am out with the dogs alot. Have a nervy male who is titled in AKC, and am working with him on the BH and tracking. My young female got her BH 3 weeks ago, is also titled in AKC, and has her TDI. Working on the SCH1 now. I am also co-instructing beginners classes at our (akc) dog training club.

Saw your Silas at the Statesville show and was very impressed. Hope to see you there next year. Oh yeah, I am the silly one who comes with a dark sable w/l bitch. You may have seen me....LOL

Pack, start here to understand shoulder:

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/info/15.html also locate the bones, and look at the "ideal" angle where these bones mate.

Cliff notes version: the shoulder consists of two major bones, the upper arm and the shoulder blade. these bones should be long and approx. equal in length. They should also have the correct angle. forming a joint described in the standard as a "right angle". I don't know that this perfect angle has ever been achieved, usually several degrees more than this.

If the blade is steep, the dog  will have more "slope" to his topline and a shorter neck. In show speak someone might say "that dog's shoulder is in his neck". Meaning the blade is too steep.

The upper arm should not only be equally long dut have proper angle.

Look at the picture of "Danny" that I post on another thread. Absolutely beautiful shoulder construction. Look at the point from hi elbow to where the upper arm meets the blade.

Can you see the length. Now compare this excellent length from this joint back and upward to his whither. Can you see that this length nearly matches the length of the upper arm Now try to imagine the angle formed where these two bones meet in the chest area. Very impressive, well at least to me.

If you like, I will show a pic of a "straight" upper arm and bore with more details.

Rik

Here, here's a bad front for you:

Xeph is very correct. A poor shoulder. 

The upper arm is not only "straight, but also short.  I can not estimate the angle formed. Looks at least 150 degrees to me. I did not do well at all in geometry.

Rik