Is it not possible to have an intelligent, fact based discussion ...........

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by vonissk on 24 July 2009 - 02:07

At this time I am working on OB with my male and workingon ring traning for the fall shows with my puppy.
I hate to see good discussions start on this board and then pretty soon it all goes to hell.......................People need to learn that other people have different opinions and they might as well just agree to disagree as to argue it out...................

by VonIsengard on 24 July 2009 - 03:07

THAT's a good front? Yuck.

by mew on 24 July 2009 - 03:07

rik, what happened to your predictions for the show. i was going to comment and woooshhh. i think it would be very interesting to see some bodys insight on this.

by Uber Land on 24 July 2009 - 04:07

voniisk, some people also need to realize their opinions are not facts

by Rik on 24 July 2009 - 14:07

mew, those were not predictions for the show, just my opinion of young dogs that have a chance to rise to the top of the show scene in the U.S. as the top winning dogs of the past few years come closer to retirement.

I had hoped it would lead into an interesting discussion and other opinions from people familiar and interested in the German S/L in the U.S.

As I had posted pictures of these dogs that I found very interesting, I became uncomfortable that I was just opening the door for endless negative comments so I zapped the thread.

I may start the thread over, with links instead of pictures.

Regardless, just a few of the young ( U.S.) dogs I like are Nick A., Danny W., Yettie Z, Xbox D.P., and I have seen these dogs (except Yettie) first hand. I base Yettie on comments from a friend in Germany.

Rik

by Rik on 24 July 2009 - 14:07

xeph, I disagree that those are good shoulder construction and here is why I think not.

The first dog does have a nice, long upper arm, however the angle lacks much in a dog presented to show a good shoulder. The blade looks correct in placement. Actually, compared to other dogs. appears to be a shoulder better than many.

The second dog appears to lack length in the upper arm. Notice that the fore chest on the 1st. dog is more attractive.

A dog that I consider to have very good shoulder construction.

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/570652.html

Rik

by Elkoorr on 24 July 2009 - 17:07

Xeph, is that one boy yours? He is very pretty to look at (even with his faults...lol) He stands very tall because of a long forearm. Together with the short upper arm and a long steep shoulder blade, its the main reason that his movement is restricted.

Rik, in Xeph second picture post I actual do think its the same dog just different age and lighting? And you are right, his front appears off. Looks like his withers are very high, and slightly off the line. There is a lot of skin, and a pronounced sternum. To judge the angulation better, this dog needs a hands on

by Xeph on 24 July 2009 - 18:07

That sable is the SAME dog. The only difference is that he's out of coat in the first picture :p

I personally think that Danny has a terrible front and that the layback isn't at all correct.

I get compliments on Justin and his movement all the time, and about what a nice front he has (and I must agree). And the compliments aren't just from American Shepherd breeders, but German as well, and people from other breeds too.

by Rik on 24 July 2009 - 18:07

Elkoor, very nice comments based on obviously very much experience.

Also true about the "hands on" which is (coupled with gait, the only sure way to get a correct evaluation. Very often the color shadings, angle of picture etc, will give a false impression of where bones begin and end.

by Xeph on 24 July 2009 - 19:07

THAT is certainly true Rik x.x I find that sables are the hardest to evaluate fronts on.

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