Is it not possible to have an intelligent, fact based discussion ........... - Page 9

Silbersee, there's nothing correct about her moving from the elbow.  She's a very pleasing bitch standing, but her front action is INCORRECT.

I don't string my dogs up in the gait, I let them show loose.

By the way, your sinking to name calling is quite attractive :)

Oh, and I didn't steal that photo.  That was a link from right here in the PDB

What are your accomplishments in the breed? American or Canadian
Campaigning that bitch to finish her championship.  She needs both majors and a couple singles

Have you ever been to a show with an SV judge?
I have, and I didn't care for it.  The dogs spent so much time pulling I never saw any actual gaiting.  If there were more actual gaiting instead of letting the dogs pull like draft horses, I don't doubt I'd have enjoyed it more.

We had an interesting discussion and as always it is getting very personal..Silbersee you have the right to love that bitch and the right to have your opinion on her..but other people have the right to their opinions also without being call stupid..

And you will probably not like mine either..you said she took your breath away..well it didn't do that on me!!

On the stand, she needs a croup, she has nice rear angulation but she looks cowhocks and the front is not bad but could be better..she has a nice type, very feminine, nice colors, nice head.
When gaiting thank god she pull on the lead so the front looks better and the rear is faulty..it is bumping all over the place.the hocks doesn't open like they should and have an outside mouvement (that is why I think she must be a little cowhocks.  The back could be better also. she lacks balance between both end.

If you have more videos feel free to post them but the one Sunsilver posted was very good..And a video in slow motion doesn't lie..you have all the time in the world to see the faults..

But I have to say that for a german type, she is better than a lot of bitchs I saw..And I'm not talking about working titles..just talking about structure..

Silbersee..are you a judge?? or do you show your dogs?? Just a question :))

Now that this thread has devolved even further, I'd like to mention to those who might be interested in enhancing their learning processes: Lower Mainland GS Club (Surrey, BC) is hosting a seminar with Horst and Michaela Knoche in mid-August. Cascade Sch Vereign is hosting a workshop/seminar with the amazing Uschi Fuchs in mid-September.

Actually mystere, I was quite enjoying this thread until people started to trash dogs that they will never own, breed or duplicate. This is the point I mark where this thread begins to "devolve".
 
Where is your devolve point.

Rik

July9000,
to answer your questions: No, I am not a judge and I don't wanna! It's a thankless job which is not paid but requires all your time. Yes, I have shown a few dogs. And I have also bred a couple of litters.
Sorry for trashing your wonderful educational thread. Trust me, I would have stayed out of it if it weren't for Gina Aquamarin. It is really amazing that three people here know more than the entire judges panel of the SV. I can usually ignore people who are know-it-alls and keyboard trolls. Admittedly, I used to be more passionate about these things but I guess old age is creeping up on me.
Sunsilver likes to collect photos for her nightmare gallery or whatever she calls it, regardless of source, ownership etc. When called out, she states that she does not publish the names of the dogs, but she does. Even if that is not legally stealing, at the very least, I call that lousy and insulting behavior.
Xeph very obviously is a young girl who has done it all, probably in her early to mid-twenties. For the past one and a half years, we had the pleasure of reading her knowledgable posts. She knows all about Schutzhund, breeding, and showing, including the German ones. When called out, she boasts about her current dog being shown for her Ch. Just a few majors missing! I bow my head: What a profound deep expertise!
I still wonder why and how this forum has deteriorated so much over the last 5 years I have been on. Now, it consists of a couple of backyard breeders and one of them plasters the threads with photos of her dogs and/or puppies everytime there is a remote chance to sell more of them. The political and other off topic threads became so numerous that Oli had to separate the forum in two. And then, we have the in-house trailer trash group who like to drag their personal problems on here and we have to read and look at pornographic images and descriptions until Oli gets around to deleting it.
I am going to butt out now and leave this subject to the knowledgable people here, because I was taught to only comment on things I truly know about.  Excuse the interruption!

Chris(Silbersee), you and I sometimes see the conformation scene differently but we definitely agree on dogs in general. You made a point in an earlier post that either flew over the heads of many or they won't acknowledge the fact. In any endeavor under the sun, once something is created it has to be "proofed" to test its effectiveness and durability. That is the difference in quality and "dime store". The point you made was about the extensive gaiting that has to be done at European trials and especially at the regional and nationals. When you proof something it shows whether or not stress and strain will alter or change the entity until it is no longer functional. Angles of shoulders and croups, and length of stifles, etc are only as good as they convert to extensive use and still operating. Anybody that trains anything knows that once learned then the behavoir has to be tested under stress to see if it is functional.
One of the great fallacies of the American showring is that the showing of the dog has no correlation to function. Most of these dogs if they were required to gait for a straight half hour would quit or that effortless gait you saw when fresh would change dramatically. The sructure isn't built for endurance and the whole world knows this yet people try to pass off these little exhibitions (American show ring), as a basis for judging correct gait. There is no proofing in these shows by extending the dogs physical and mental coordination to enable the dog to be able to gait for hours as a real herding dog may be called to do. This has always been a fallacy with the showring in america and the reason you can't compare the show dogs of German to America if you really understand the breed and what the gait is needed for. To argue that the this component of "proofing" is not needed only shows the lack of knowledge a person has about what a german shepherd should be. 
Chris made this point and following posts ignored it but that really shows the difference in"understanding" functional gait" and  American self professed gait that has not functional use and has not been shown to have functional use as the herding people of the world have never tried to incorporate these extremes.
Rik is right, it is so easy to see people who's primary knowledge base is extremely limited whether it be by age or by lack of experience in real world. Nonetheless, gaiting is more than up and down the ring a few times on a loose lead....you must proof the gait to see if it will hold up and most of these American dogs wouldn't make whether you like it or not.  

Well, I thought this thread had died and here comes another very informative post from some one obviously speaking from experience and knowledge.

Gustav, you said all that very well. TIG also makes reference to this with his/her (sorry Tig, I don't know you)  "Ground Pound" comment, a reference to the dog breaking down in the front due to poor construction.

There is absolutely no danger that anyone will ever see this in an AKC show ring. Word would quickly get out and a judge who gaited dogs this extensvily would probably not get many future assignments. 

Almost every good discussion involves people with different view points. Otherwise, how could it be interesting.

Best,

Rik

Of course..i'm just one of the stupid you are talking about LOL..

I've been to every national for the ast 20 years and I'm just going to make two points..

At the Sieger(and I have seen some) they have sometimes more than a 1000 dogs and still can't find better ones(that i just cannot understand but hey! i'm stupid and ignorant so..)

At the national in the special class they have about 60 females and 60 males and that takes the whole day to judge...What do you think they do for hours?? They make them gait..again and again..all together..some makes them walk some not..one against the other etc etc..until some can't anymore and then remains the best ones..

Oh and i'm sorry to say that the only dogs who just could'nt follow the others where german type..and that's why they almost never get a select..But you wouldn't know that since you have probably never attended a National..
Even if you do you would probably just say that the dog didn't win because it was german (i don't know like there is a racist thing in it !) Well NO..it's because they can't match on gaiting..plain and simple..Do I have to explain why?? THey we're bred for it!

And please i'm not stating that every american dog is good..the hell NO..i've attended National where i would have not bring one of those dogs home..

Gustav..what are your knowledge on showing?? Do you show your dogs?? Since you say you have so much experience..

You know in the end..Aquamarin still remains the 2007 Siergerin..and my opinion on her will have absolutly NO impact.  This is not about trashing a dog but just about sharing what we see and why..When I watch the video i'm just stating what i'm seeing. I'm I right..I am wrong..I DOESN'T MATTER!! She is still the 2007 Siegerin and for some that's all that matter..

Nobody told me anything about my bitch having "dental implants".  That said, I find it creepy and stalkerish that you'd call people to ask questions about MY dog when you have no interest in her