Panda Shepherd(what do you think?) - Page 23

by the way Dex - I may have that opinion, but as for saying I am scare-mongering, thats the last thing that I ever try to do to folk on this board or off it - I would rather try to  make people comfortable and inquisitive to find out things for themselves than try to control, and get a point over by scare-mongering.   Mo.

ha ha Penny - no excitement going on here

all have have said is that providing proper breeding takes place, where health concerns are taken as paramount, then colour is irrespective. Although you may not feel you are scare-mongering your position is very clear on this - you have implied that non-standard coloured GSD could have problems - what you have not done is justify those thoughts. You are an advocate of the 'standard' colour so your views pertain to that and you put over those thought to others. I do not criticise your preferences, only that you imply that your way is best; and you do that by implying other ways are wrong. I do not; I am unbiased where colour is concerned, I only say look at health, temperament and workability. If you would really like to make people comfortable and inquisitive you can give an unbiased opinion, but not imply things like breeding diffrent colours would lead the GSD down an unhealthy path and also that breeding non-standard colours should not be encouraged. That is purely your opionion and has has no factual basis - I am not attempting to lead people down any path, aside of saying that health is paramount. If colour=type of health to you then fine, it is your opinion but I chose not to agree as it needs more than an opnion for me to make my mind up. Also, you have not really explained why colour is such an issue to you, which clearly it is. If the 'standard' was written to include all colours would you still argue the point? Do you believe the founders of the 'standard' took into account colour as a health issue when they created it? (the UK KC does not reference health in the GSD standard from my understanding) I would really like to here your views on these last points if I may.

@Penny - I think the KC is something we can have some agreement on! Why health screeening has never been taken up I do not know. I believe that is one of the the most important things that needs to be addressed IMO and yes, I agree with your remarks on the accredited breeder scheme. The KC should definitely act to ban indiscriminate breeders and stop registrations of dogs these people have bred - then again money talks I guess.......

Not that my opinion is worth a lot but breeders have bred for physical characteristics for years. One woman said she would breed a hundred dogs for the perfect one.  It is important to only breed those who are physically and mentally fit. No one needs neurotic crippled dogs, however color should not be grounds for culling. I personally favor liver GSD with a thick healthy coat and green eyes. Every one I have ever come in contact with has been large, healthy with a perfect temperment. When mine died, I could not find another one, the breeders told me at the time that they culled such pups as worthless. So I rescue the spent breeders from a local GSD puppy mill. He has too many GSD, no liver but everything legal.  He has a couple of piebald shepherds that he thinks are great, as well a number of brindle. His piebalds are not hefty enough for my taste and are a bit spooky.  I say breed for temperment and health, give ribbons to those that are particularly pretty, and let people looking for good companions handle the off colored congenial winners. My friend bred English Spot rabbits, they come in spotted, charlies which have a mustach, and solids.  Only the spotted ones are showable but she always saved and bred the best physical type of all because all three colors were a natural part of the breed and she always had some fine show rabbits in the bunch.

 "I personally favor liver GSD with a thick healthy coat and green eyes. Every one I have ever come in contact with has been large, healthy with a perfect temperment."

Cheri,

 I think this statement alone is the reason the off colored dogs should be culled. I'm not saying you would personally breed these dogs, but there are breeders that would. These dogs can't be registered, so there's really no way for a person placing these dogs to control whether it's bred or not in the future. There are far to many unscrupulous breeders taking these dogs and giving them fancy names. Then they turn around and market them as a special type of GSD, when in fact these dogs are the result of unwanted recessive genes.  Yes is suck culling pups, but it's for the greater good of the breed IMO. 

 i think its the owners that need culling, not the dogs its for the benefit of the breed

"I think this statement alone is the reason the off colored dogs should be culled." - Felloffher

Culling isnt the right choice! Find the puppy a loving home and dont breed from the bitch again.
So glad i found this post cause i think it was this post (and a few others) which made me relise the breeding isnt the right choice for me as i wouldnt be able to look down at a dog/puppy cause of the colour of its fur.

Yes culling is the answer, no need to make things worst. I thought you were leaving Geordie? Yeah we could cull a few breeders as well. Moons.

@ Felloffher  " I think this statement alone is the reason for the off color dogs to be culled"

are you saying that the dogs should be culled because Cheri noted that they have a tendency to be on the large side?  I still don't understand how an accidental liver or blue from a reputable breeder is hurting the breed.  If the dog is healthy with good structure and tempermeant what's the issue?  It's still a perfectly good working dog with great potential.

I understand blue/liver isn't the standard, but neither are the crazy back angulations that are prolific in this breed.  As a structural change it affects the way the dogs move and bear weight, and therefore affects their ability to work, yet I haven't noticed any strong notion to start culling them.
( I wonder why that is?) 

If more reputable breeders just sell their accidental blues/ livers to a good home ( can do so after they are spayed and neutered )  instead of hiding them, people wouldn't think that they are so rare. Ie BYB would be less able to  use the RARE color angle to sell dogs that are ACTUALLY hurting the breed by being subpar.

::::puts on flack jacket::::

Even if someone decides to breed an off color dog that is stellar in every way except for the fact that the color is non standard, wouldn't they still be doing the breed a much  better service than an "accepted" breeder of the kennel club that ignores health issues because their dog has excellent show prospects that they want to pass on.

I'm not a breeder and it's just my opinion... (which holds as much weight as a feather cup i'm sure) But I can't see any good reason to kill a perfectly healthy viable dog.