KC Meeting with GSD club representatives -(fact not fiction) - Page 3

David - wrong again - crikey you are wrong a lot aren't you. You do jump to an awful lot of (incorrect) conclusions. Been there - and was very disappointed actually. I would have thought that as the 'League' are 'leading the way forward', it should appear on their website too, or at least a link through to the BC website. Anyone would think that they don't want anyone to find this info :)  Anyhow, this form only represents the PHYSICAL survey (as stated at the top of the form). I see that the disparity on the health side is that SV has a requirement for elbows, whereas UK is currently optional.

This is why I said in my question 'in it's entirety' to show how the UK & German Survey compare to each other. Still, perhaps that wasn't clear - so, for example as I understand it, the Koerung:

Rules for entry
Physical (HD/ED etc etc)
AD test
Receive a min 'good' rating under an SV judge

At the survey
Temperament Test
Gun Test
Protection/Courage test

1) Are the only rules for entry for a UK Breed Survey  the physical ones, as shown on the BC website, or is this information contained somewhere else?  I believe it would be clearer if it were all set out together (IF there ARE any other requirements)

2) What are the requirements in terms of Temperament Test, Gun Test, Protection/Courage in the UK Breed Survey. Are there any?

Missbeeb - The last thing I would expect is for you to care about what matters to others, sadly.  I'm intrigued as to how 'the penny has dropped' about me in terms of my post about colour. What did the penny drop on? Your head? Are you now assuming I have non-standard colour dogs and/or favour non standard colours?  Wrong again (uyou're starting to sound like DP). I have a bi-colour and a black.  Trouble is, the collective 'you' see things that aren't there, and it appears don't see things that are there.  It wasn't me suggesting that non standard colours should be considered for a revised breed standard. It was MW. I was interested in his slant on it - and wondered about others' opinions, should have known better I guess.

I don't bait DP, just respond to his name calling - here he goes again you see - 'silly pillock' (one of my special favourites) a petty pest (new one, but quite like it) If that's baiting him - then yes I guess I am guilty as charged. He does however always give me a good laugh.

Dingo, it is your wish to know the differences, then you find out, go to a GSD Breed Survey and go to a Korung.

I cannot find out the difference between the Kennel Club (UK) and the German Kennel Club on the Kennel Clubs website.

I cannot find the difference between the BAGSD-VPG and the Kennel Club VTD on either the BAGSD or the Kennel Club websites.

perhaps you could detail them and post them on here? Thank you (you Flunker) 

Missbeeb

Who mentioned black and white shepherds????????????????????????? No Missbeeb, you are quite correct - he does not, and I agree with him, I was referring as I am sure you know, to the colours which the kennel club currently list as non standard. Think I made my feelings plain about the black and white 'collie crosses'.

I am not a person who naturally resorts to insults,  I believe people resort to this when no pertinent argument can be formulated, and as you rightly point out, I can argue. Glad I make you laugh, I like to spread a little joy. Yes thanks, do have a partner, but nagging him is nowhere near enough fun.  BTW I still fail to see how the penny dropping was linked to the post about colour. Anyway,no matter, we will agree to disagree, as ever.

Videx
So, your argument that the full information is there isn't true after all - what a surprise, and you think the KC are slippery :). Are you able to say that it exists in any format?  What are you trying to hide, it was a simple question.  Could it be that the UK Breed survey does not include many of the crucial elements of the SV Breed Survey?, and if that is the case, what happens if and when you gain recognition from the WUSV/SV for your titles? Are all the existing UK breed surveys likely to be rendered invalid?

I cannot find out the difference between the Kennel Club (UK) and the German Kennel Club on the Kennel Clubs website.
Ah, but the KC aren't very publicly proclaiming that they are adopting the WUSV/SV style of showing and breeding now are they? Could it be that you want the style of show, but without having to commit to the rules? There are a few KC UK Champions that I know of that did not pass the SV Koerung, but made champion here and were used for breeding in the UK, so indeed the people involved did not commit to the SV rules. Wanting the style without the substance ?

So to newcomers to the breed and showing, you would suggest that they find out for themselves how they get started, by going to a Koerung and UK Breed Survey and working it out for themselves? Not doing much to encourage them is it? In fact, I did see someone post trying to find out what was involved in a breed survey. I think it bad form that the information is not freely available from the 'leading' websites, very clearly laid out. I'd certainly want to know if I needed to train my dog for the AD for example. There would surely be no advantage in hiding this information?

If the UK Breed Survey does not meet the SV Breed Survey requirements why not say so? I think it will be important for quite a lot of people in future, not you perhaps as you are 'getting out of the breed', but many of the future exhibitors and breeders. At the moment, the WUSV shows may be very enjoyable for everyone, but without official recognition are little more than what I used to know as Exemption Dog Shows, or as they are called now, companion dog shows. Surely people need to know how this will affect their future showing prospects?

So, let's see if you can answer the question, as stated in my previous post. I believe it was very clear. Just to remind you here are the questions again:

1) Are the only rules for entry for a UK Breed Survey the physical ones, as shown on the BC website, or is this information contained somewhere else? I believe it would be clearer if it were all set out together (IF there ARE any other requirements)

2) What are the requirements in terms of Temperament Test, Gun Test, Protection/Courage in the UK Breed Survey. Are there any?

Anything other than a straight answer to each question, will speak louder than anything else.

Dingo / Joe P... you are pretty demanding... expecting straight answers, when you avoid the very same!

You've made it quite clear that you are not a newcomer to the breed, (a novice, yes) so where's the connection?  There's many things you can accuse David of, but refusing information is not one of them, his website is full of info and he's very generous about posting links for people.

... and you don't bait?  You sound quite plausible initially, but you're a bit of a nasty piece on the quiet!
 
As for you failing to see things... yes, I can see that about you and I fully understand that this is fun for you, but it's serious for us... strange way to get your jollies, but hey ho, each to their own, after all, I have no way of knowing how dull or unsatisfactory your life might be.  Happy to make allowances!

Dingodog, you really must learn how to do your homework and inwardly digest all that you read, it gets quite monotonous having to come on here and keep explaining things to you, especially when they are all things that those heavily involved in this breed and its improvement schemes over the years already know.

As you appear unable to do the homework yourself, needing all the time for someone else to spell it out for you or do the comparisions between the schemes for you to peruse. Now I understand why you had the audacity to suggest it shouldnt matter who does all the work the KC want to take credit for, because it obviously it was never going to be you, since you cant even be bothered to do this simple task for yourself. lol  !!

Anyway, here I go again spelling it out for you. Please go back to the BC Survey form on the BC site, on page 4 of 4 you will find item 49 and 50. Item 49 requires the result of the animals reaction to the Guntest and Item 50 refers to various reactions to a temperament test. This test consists of many parts, some of which have already been assessed during the dogs anatomy survey, such as the reaction to the placement of the measuring stick etc. However, further tests in this catagory include the dogs reaction to walking around a crowd and between others dogs, standing on a loose lead in a crowd, being approached by individuals passing by on a one to one basis. All these tests are to be carried out with the owner (thereby eliminating the chance of the owner attracting the dogs attention away from the approaching crowd etc. Each surveyor has his own way of assessing the dogs reactions, part of the crowd test situation is never quite the same at any one survey because the owner and dog is asked to walk around the people assembled at the ringside, where children are playing and other dogs around etc. Then there is the organised Crowd test where the owner and dog walk into the middle of the crowd which can give the effect that the crowd is moving in on the dog. All are good assessments of a dogs steadiness of nerve.
 
Now if you had ever bothered to take enough interest in what the real GSD enthusiast / lover was doing to enhance the breed you would already be aware of what went on at a Breed Survey. You continue to advocate the KC are all singing and and dancing Dingo, they dont even understand what constitutes a survey, some of the dogs that they are prepared to register progeny from and have their CC;s handed out to are not even capable of passing a BC Survey. So coming on here in an effort to disparage the current Survey serves to further show you up and expose you for what you really are, a nincompoop !!.

Sue b