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by Abby Normal on 25 June 2010 - 10:06
Clinically this is not always the case, and dogs with a very high score can be sound all their lives long, whereas some dogs with a much lower score can suffer.
In answer to Penny's second question - I would want neither..
In answer to Penny's second question - I would want neither..
by AGIOS on 25 June 2010 - 10:06
The Kennel Club letter sent out to the Gsd clubs can be found on the Gsd League website, along with a response from Malcolm Willis.
CLICK HERE
Could all Gsd League members please forward their voting decision to Carole Lister - thomasmonds@aol.com
CLICK HERE
Could all Gsd League members please forward their voting decision to Carole Lister - thomasmonds@aol.com
by AmbiiGSD on 25 June 2010 - 10:06
The voting system that has been set up on Dog world is subject to abuse and multiple voting.
You can not take those numbers as a given.
Most people are on Dynamic IP's anyway, usually only hardcore gamers used fixed IP's so blocking IP from voting again would be pretty much useless. However the system they are using takes very little internet knowledge to get around.
Thus the poll should be disregarded as it does not and can not be considered accurate.
You can not take those numbers as a given.
Most people are on Dynamic IP's anyway, usually only hardcore gamers used fixed IP's so blocking IP from voting again would be pretty much useless. However the system they are using takes very little internet knowledge to get around.
Thus the poll should be disregarded as it does not and can not be considered accurate.
by missbeeb on 25 June 2010 - 10:06
'tis but a wizened carrot from the KC. It speaks volumes that the KC thinks a "vote" is necessary... they have been asked on more than one occasion to remove the name, Alsatian!
Anyone thinking that the KC has nothing to lose, has missed the bigger picture, for other breeds will follow our example... why shouldn't they? Why should anyone pay exorbitant amounts of money to the KC for running their own shows?
A registration office may be pretty much all the KC will be in the not too distant future... unless they listen to Breed Clubs, move ahead with the times and make health checks mandatory!
The Regional Events have been wonderful, relaxed affairs, with good judging and good dogs... no contest imo... the KC can keep its' CCs.
by crossingate on 25 June 2010 - 11:06
The KC will do things in their own way, whatever the outcome of the vote!
It may even be their way of getting the clubs who didnt sign the recent directive to start talking to them again! Whatever! The name is what the breed is - a German Shepherd Dog - why is it known as anything else? Would they call another breed by a made-up name? Malcolm Willis' letter shown on the GSDL web-site says it all.
We now have a way of showing in the UK in the way we want, either/and at KC shows/GSDL WUSV shows - to me that seems like a win-win situation for us all!
Sally
It may even be their way of getting the clubs who didnt sign the recent directive to start talking to them again! Whatever! The name is what the breed is - a German Shepherd Dog - why is it known as anything else? Would they call another breed by a made-up name? Malcolm Willis' letter shown on the GSDL web-site says it all.
We now have a way of showing in the UK in the way we want, either/and at KC shows/GSDL WUSV shows - to me that seems like a win-win situation for us all!
Sally
by Videx on 25 June 2010 - 11:06
There is absolutely NO obstacles in the way of the GSDL/WUSV System introducing a Title of British GSD Champion and the awarding of British Champion certificates (BCC) and Reserve British Champion Certificates (RBCC) at future GSDL/WUSV Events.
The Kennel Club do NOT have a monopoly of awarding the title of CHAMPION.
However the title BRITISH GSD CHAMPION has a much better 'quality' about it.
The Kennel Club do NOT have a monopoly of awarding the title of CHAMPION.
However the title BRITISH GSD CHAMPION has a much better 'quality' about it.
by Abby Normal on 25 June 2010 - 11:06
Sorry to disagree with the lovely MissB, but the KC's main income is from registrations. To my knowledge little income if any is generated from breed shows. So they don't have anything to lose as long as they remain the main registration body - that's where the money really is.
I don't know what would happen if the KC did decide to disenfranchise the GSD, and not award CC's, I assume that they can do that, and if there are so few entrants at the shows to award CC's to, it would seem to be the only logical step for them long term. The WUSV/GSDL are undoubtedly better shows but don't currently hold any status with any kennel club or body as far as I know. It is this that needs to be rectified if the WUSV/GSDL style of showing is to be anything other than a 'fun' hobby, that's all I meant. This style of showing has to offer meaningful awards or titles to be taken seriously, and to encourage new exhibitors.
Perhaps some new exhibitors will come through. I have met some very promising puppies that are show/working bred. But if they can't show at KC shows (if they didn't have them any more) and they can't get any meaningful titles at WUSV/GSDL, are they going to bother? This might not be an issue for existing exhibitors who already have some championship titles to show in their pedigrees, but for future prospects? It would be a huge loss for the breed.
I just think it's time to look at the bigger picture.
I don't know what would happen if the KC did decide to disenfranchise the GSD, and not award CC's, I assume that they can do that, and if there are so few entrants at the shows to award CC's to, it would seem to be the only logical step for them long term. The WUSV/GSDL are undoubtedly better shows but don't currently hold any status with any kennel club or body as far as I know. It is this that needs to be rectified if the WUSV/GSDL style of showing is to be anything other than a 'fun' hobby, that's all I meant. This style of showing has to offer meaningful awards or titles to be taken seriously, and to encourage new exhibitors.
Perhaps some new exhibitors will come through. I have met some very promising puppies that are show/working bred. But if they can't show at KC shows (if they didn't have them any more) and they can't get any meaningful titles at WUSV/GSDL, are they going to bother? This might not be an issue for existing exhibitors who already have some championship titles to show in their pedigrees, but for future prospects? It would be a huge loss for the breed.
I just think it's time to look at the bigger picture.
by Videx on 25 June 2010 - 12:06
A "British GSD Champion" title awarded by the GSDL/WUSV will be much more meaningful than a KC Champion title.
Some people on here, particularly Katrina Doble, really need to get real on this one.
Some people on here, particularly Katrina Doble, really need to get real on this one.
by Abby Normal on 25 June 2010 - 12:06
Videx
Yes of course anyone in the world can start a 'club' and award their own titles, but unless they are recognised, they are surely meaningless.
There is a big difference between awarding a title, and a title being recognised. I could start a splinter border collie club, and introduce a title of Border Collie British Champion of Excellence, and accompany it with a gleaming trophy and fancy rosette. I would be happy to sit and look at it and show it off to all my friends and peers - but that is where it's usefulness would end. I do stand to be corrected, but I would assume that any title (say British Champion as you mentioned it) cannot appear in any pedigree as it isn't recognised by the UK governing body, the KC?
Let's face facts - everyone wants a Sieger in their pedigree or a UK champion or two, it denotes the quality of the line. If the future does pan out with the KC not awarding CCs to the GSD breed, and the WUSV/GSDL titles can't be included in pedigrees - what does that mean for the future of the GSD?
That is what I am getting at - recognition - it is essential for the breed, it is not, repeat not, a criticism. It is essential to attract newcomers to the breed, and to secure the future of the breed. I sincerely hope the future of the GSD in the UK doesn't rest on a few exhibitors having a fun day out.
Hopefully the GSDL are giving this some consideration.
Yes of course anyone in the world can start a 'club' and award their own titles, but unless they are recognised, they are surely meaningless.
There is a big difference between awarding a title, and a title being recognised. I could start a splinter border collie club, and introduce a title of Border Collie British Champion of Excellence, and accompany it with a gleaming trophy and fancy rosette. I would be happy to sit and look at it and show it off to all my friends and peers - but that is where it's usefulness would end. I do stand to be corrected, but I would assume that any title (say British Champion as you mentioned it) cannot appear in any pedigree as it isn't recognised by the UK governing body, the KC?
Let's face facts - everyone wants a Sieger in their pedigree or a UK champion or two, it denotes the quality of the line. If the future does pan out with the KC not awarding CCs to the GSD breed, and the WUSV/GSDL titles can't be included in pedigrees - what does that mean for the future of the GSD?
That is what I am getting at - recognition - it is essential for the breed, it is not, repeat not, a criticism. It is essential to attract newcomers to the breed, and to secure the future of the breed. I sincerely hope the future of the GSD in the UK doesn't rest on a few exhibitors having a fun day out.
Hopefully the GSDL are giving this some consideration.
by Abby Normal on 25 June 2010 - 12:06
OK - here we go again. Whether I am Katrina Doble or someone else entirely, you will never know, and in any case it is irrelevant. I think what I am saying is a possibility, and something which needs to be considered.
Videx, you need to get real. A British GSD champion may be more meaningful within a small closed circle, and in health terms, but it won't appear in pedigrees. This could impact mightily in the future, which you don't seem to care very much about.
It's about a next step for the WUSV/GSDL style of shows if they are to be meaningful. I hope that they are working towards some form of recognition. Your response (or rather lack of it) leads me to think otherwise.
Grow up.
Videx, you need to get real. A British GSD champion may be more meaningful within a small closed circle, and in health terms, but it won't appear in pedigrees. This could impact mightily in the future, which you don't seem to care very much about.
It's about a next step for the WUSV/GSDL style of shows if they are to be meaningful. I hope that they are working towards some form of recognition. Your response (or rather lack of it) leads me to think otherwise.
Grow up.
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