The ideal GSD before the breed was bifurcated into WL and SL - Page 1

Before the 1980's most of the GSDs in profungs and zuchtschau came from the same bloodlines.  Here is a typical GSD from the early 1980 which was very, very close to the standard.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/200068.html

Note the short back, proper croup, long and of the right angle, correct upper arm setback in front and layback of scapula, and good prosturnum.  There were many GSDs like this back then and quite a few came from Haus Beck, Busecker Schloss and top breeders like that. 

A while back I watched an old video from the 1982 Sieger Schau. There were a lot of very, very nice GSDs, much better than todfay structurally and tempermentally, but the color was nice as appealing in that the SL GSDS now have more red.  Some back then did, but most had a black saddle with deep orange or dark tan or brown instead of red.

WL and SL competition became so severe and the participants became so determined to win that they made many sacrifices which took them away from the standard to get there.  WL and SL are just far too competitive and they both overlook the basics like roiachy backs, excessive length, steep croups, etc. and have their own off standrad prescribed biases.

I have a question in mind since long and maybe this post could be a right place to put it out:
Does structure affect temperament and character? Does it provide the dog with more confidence?
I often hear that a high set tailed dog is dominant or courageous.
Does a high set neck give confidence to a dog that he is higher in rank amongst its pack?
Does a more angulated dog feel lower in rank?
Does a fast runner feel of better edge than other dogs?
Does a dog with proper strong teeth and muzzle have a feeling of more power?

Just wondering

Ibrahim

My opinion of your example linked above, is that he should be of a slightly (~10%) longer overall proportion.

 Got any video of the dog working and not just how cool his bones would look if not for the dammed skin in the way ? You are talking ideal, but then puking up structure, and absolutely nothing about if the dog could really work or not.

 Got any video of the dog working and not just how cool his bones would look if not for the dammed skin in the way ? You are talking ideal, but then puking up structure, and absolutely nothing about if the dog could really work or not.

No, Jeff, I listed him as a typical GSD from that era, and he was SL.  However, temperament in SL was much better back then in general because WL and SL often came from the same breeders.  Here is an example of a good WL dog from the 1980 profung show.  He was third.  Is that good enough for you.  The dog was a great mover, very close to the standard, and georgeous, not some string bean.  There are many, many more high placing profund GSDs from that general era, and some even competed and did well at the zuchtschau.
I have bitework video from that era for SL and it was genrally very impressive, plus I was informed by those ijn the know that these dogs often were dominant producers of deep quality with correct workign temperament.  Haus Beck, Busecker Schloss and Korbelbach to mention a few breeders of very excellent "total German Shepherds".  WL folks have become so ultra competitive that they have bred selectively only to win in the profung ring and many have forgotten about the standard.  Take Dr. Beck, he was concerned about breeding the total GSD, good looking and good temperament, highly intelligent, quick to learn, loyal, devoted, calm but with an explosive fearless defense reaction naturally before any Sch training.  Now there are some old timers in this country that know and appreciate what I am talking about here and have seen these dogs personally as I have. Yellow Rose is one.  Ask her what she thinks of the GSDs from this era as far as WL or SL. Ask her about their genetic dominance if bred correctly to produce correct working temperament while still looking good.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/4334.html

 Quote:  Here is an example of a good WL dog from the 1980 profung show. He was third. Is that good enough for you.

Who was the judge, and how many of those dogs were showline ? By 1980 there were sold out working judges. This is from what I can figure about ten years after people figured out how to get a shitter a title by the way. Reiser was instrumental in this training.

I agree with Darylehert,

The dog is too short in the back.

Ibrahim,

The only thing that matters is HEART!  I don't think anything else will cause a dog to feel differently about how he feels about anything.  Just my opinion.

Deb

The length to height ration should not be dependent on the length of the back, the shorter the back is the better, this is what I know, am I wrong here?. If your comment was you would like to see him longer I may agree but not saying his back is too short.
 From the standard: The back, including the loins, is straight and strongly developed yet not too long between the withers and the croup
Protruding of chest and croup length adds uo to total length.

Ibrahim