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by jaymesie51 on 26 October 2010 - 20:10
Pencil, (no lead), you really do need to get your self a life, people sign contracts with reputable breeders because they feel safe in the knowledge that should something happen and they can no longer keep there pet, the breeder will ensure that there pet finds a proper loving home like the one it had, and not end up being a chained guard dog or a breeding machine, these contracts also let the new buyers know just how much there breeder wants to protect the breed and there breeding, by placing restrictions on the breeding of an animal without having passed all relevent tests, they help keep indiscriminate people like you from breeding from high scores or no scores, yes you can still breed your bitch but you will never register its offspring so selling the pups may just cause you enough problems not to do it again.... and now to finish it is not their puppy until they have paid for it (and if they want it it comes with a contract with restrictions) so if they want a puppy from a caring reputable breeder then buying from the one that has all of the above is the way to go, or they can go elsewhere and take there chance. (like you did and be a bitter person for the rest of there life)... NO PUPPY LEAVES MY PREMESIS WITHOUT A SIGNED CONTRACT
jim h
jim h
by Penny on 26 October 2010 - 20:10
Pencil.
My idea of the contract that people sign with me on taking a puppy, is has been said - it shows responsibility on my part for one thing, that I DO want them to hip score,(nothing to hide) and I WILL NOT LIFT the endorsement if they breed without doing so. I am well aware that the KC might just overturn this for a few quid on registrations, I would hope not, but anything is possible. However, whats the alternative?
My puppy owners know that this is the case, it is duscussed and they sign to that and take a copy away. On that paper also says that if their circustances change, the dog can come back to me, and if the need arises and the dog is coming back in good health or because it has a fault that the new owners are not prepared for, with the proviso of two independant vet reports, they will also get their money back.
I do this, in the hope that if I have chosen the wrong people for my puppies, that they will look at the fact that they can get back their money rather than put the dog in the local papers..... its not foolproof, you cant account for every event, but you can take as much as you can by way of steps to be there for the puppy after its sold, and if you only convince 9 out of 10 people that there is no chance that they can sell on or breed indiscriminately, its better than not trying and waving your puppy good-bye. Mo.
Lidia
Yes, I do go on a bit, and the more this thread went on the more I chipped in.
My idea of the contract that people sign with me on taking a puppy, is has been said - it shows responsibility on my part for one thing, that I DO want them to hip score,(nothing to hide) and I WILL NOT LIFT the endorsement if they breed without doing so. I am well aware that the KC might just overturn this for a few quid on registrations, I would hope not, but anything is possible. However, whats the alternative?
My puppy owners know that this is the case, it is duscussed and they sign to that and take a copy away. On that paper also says that if their circustances change, the dog can come back to me, and if the need arises and the dog is coming back in good health or because it has a fault that the new owners are not prepared for, with the proviso of two independant vet reports, they will also get their money back.
I do this, in the hope that if I have chosen the wrong people for my puppies, that they will look at the fact that they can get back their money rather than put the dog in the local papers..... its not foolproof, you cant account for every event, but you can take as much as you can by way of steps to be there for the puppy after its sold, and if you only convince 9 out of 10 people that there is no chance that they can sell on or breed indiscriminately, its better than not trying and waving your puppy good-bye. Mo.
Lidia
Yes, I do go on a bit, and the more this thread went on the more I chipped in.
by Jodie on 26 October 2010 - 21:10
Pencil,
I am one of those puppy buyers who willingly signed a contract, however that does not make me gullible!
I actually prefer it when breeders have contracts and endorse registrations, as it shows they care enough about the breed and the pups they are selling to not want them being bred indiscriminately. That to me is so much better than someone who sells their pups with no regard as to what happens to them next. If your intentions are honorable, why would you have a problem signing a contract?
I am one of those puppy buyers who willingly signed a contract, however that does not make me gullible!
I actually prefer it when breeders have contracts and endorse registrations, as it shows they care enough about the breed and the pups they are selling to not want them being bred indiscriminately. That to me is so much better than someone who sells their pups with no regard as to what happens to them next. If your intentions are honorable, why would you have a problem signing a contract?
by Trotters123 on 26 October 2010 - 22:10
TAKEN FROM THE KENNEL CLUB WEBSITE!
Health Results for Kassieger Venessa
German Shepherd Dog
Jump to Results
To get an idea of screening currently relevant to this breed, please see the Accredited Breeder Scheme - Breed Specific Requirements and Recommendations (PDF).
Dogs may have a result recorded under the following Kennel Club screening schemes
BVA/KC Elbow Dysplasia Scheme
BVA/KC Hip Dysplasia Scheme
BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Scheme
A number of breed specific DNA tests for particular conditions.
There are no health screening records for this dog.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This could be because
None of the available Kennel Club testing schemes are relevant to this breed.
The dog has not been tested.
The dog has been tested, but the Kennel Club does not have the test results on its database.
Health Results for Kassieger Venessa
German Shepherd Dog
Jump to Results
To get an idea of screening currently relevant to this breed, please see the Accredited Breeder Scheme - Breed Specific Requirements and Recommendations (PDF).
Dogs may have a result recorded under the following Kennel Club screening schemes
BVA/KC Elbow Dysplasia Scheme
BVA/KC Hip Dysplasia Scheme
BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Scheme
A number of breed specific DNA tests for particular conditions.
There are no health screening records for this dog.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This could be because
None of the available Kennel Club testing schemes are relevant to this breed.
The dog has not been tested.
The dog has been tested, but the Kennel Club does not have the test results on its database.
by pencil on 26 October 2010 - 22:10
Bazza.
Nice try bazza,god how you almost managed to write a reply without trying to insult the writer just becuse they disagree with you.
But as you know ( I keep using those words because you come across as all knowing-yet actually seem to know very little )Like your griffiths reference, so way off target.
Penny like bazza you know one of the main reasons for endorsements is so that should the pup not turn out ok then you can keep your affix off the kc's records and future pedigrees.
jodie.
to refer to your last sentence as to why one would have a problem with a contract-its so simple really, as stated before if you bought a pup or anything else it should be yours and all decision regarding pup should be yours.of course what's never refered to on here is that there are countless breeds who are just as welfare minded about the dogs they breed, yet don't have restrictions.
by bazza on 26 October 2010 - 23:10
Most breeders of any breed today do have contracts with breeding restrictions.... FACT.
Not off target at all, up until your above post you had not mentioned Malcolm for several hours....FACT.
If, as you put it a pup does not turn out right, lets say high hip/elbow score, that pups breeder affix WILL be on the database with the KC for anyone to see, so your claim above holds no water.... fact.
I know a lot more than you think Pencil, lol.....Fact.
Insulting the writer because they do not agree with me??? WTF, do you mean you?looks like not another soul here, with the exception of your other user name alter ego, agrees with ANYTHING you EVER have to say, lmao.
JODIE, Very well said and I know most puppy buyers fully agree with you.
Not off target at all, up until your above post you had not mentioned Malcolm for several hours....FACT.
If, as you put it a pup does not turn out right, lets say high hip/elbow score, that pups breeder affix WILL be on the database with the KC for anyone to see, so your claim above holds no water.... fact.
I know a lot more than you think Pencil, lol.....Fact.
Insulting the writer because they do not agree with me??? WTF, do you mean you?looks like not another soul here, with the exception of your other user name alter ego, agrees with ANYTHING you EVER have to say, lmao.
JODIE, Very well said and I know most puppy buyers fully agree with you.
by Penny on 27 October 2010 - 07:10
Pencil writes
Penny like bazza you know one of the main reasons for endorsements is so that should the pup not turn out ok then you can keep your affix off the kc's records and future pedigrees.
Did you think about what you were writing Pencil? putting on endorsements means that you actually DO get any problems published. I have no wish to hide any problems, I like the easy life....
i.e. - breed to the best of your ability and make sure your standards are high
- if a problem occurs deal with it fairly for all concerned and do the right thing by the puppy
which is why I also ask the new owners for their vets, and they get a letter from me with all of my details, in case the puppy develops a condition that could poss be hereditory, and the owners agree to allow the vet to let me know. Once the owners have heard all that at 8 weeks or so, I am sure they know there is nothing to hide, and perfection can never be guaranteed, only strived for.
- sorry I am spelling it out a bit, but I would have thought that you undestood endorsements, and it seems you dont at all.
Endorsements encourage your customers to have their animals hip scored by the time you have explained fully about the scheme, and why the endorsement
This in turn, if the score is not good, is PUBLISHED officially and recognised, and then you deal with the problem with the owner to the best of your ability and without animosity (unless you get a customer like the one who started this post) The second endorsement leads me to explain to people that the KC will not supply an export pedigree for their puppy. They can emigrate with it, they can go abroad on a passport, but not sell commercially abroad....- if they still want a puppy from me, then they know that I am there for them, for life, and Christmas picci`s.
What is your policy Pencil? You have shown yourself on here to not even honour your pledges of donations,lets hope the people concerned were not relyhing on your promise eh? and yet you blithely ignore that fact when its mentioned - is that the way you sell your puppies, and hope. Or do you have no puppies, so are not even aware of the minefield it is for all concerned to get things as right as can be. Mo.
Penny like bazza you know one of the main reasons for endorsements is so that should the pup not turn out ok then you can keep your affix off the kc's records and future pedigrees.
Did you think about what you were writing Pencil? putting on endorsements means that you actually DO get any problems published. I have no wish to hide any problems, I like the easy life....
i.e. - breed to the best of your ability and make sure your standards are high
- if a problem occurs deal with it fairly for all concerned and do the right thing by the puppy
which is why I also ask the new owners for their vets, and they get a letter from me with all of my details, in case the puppy develops a condition that could poss be hereditory, and the owners agree to allow the vet to let me know. Once the owners have heard all that at 8 weeks or so, I am sure they know there is nothing to hide, and perfection can never be guaranteed, only strived for.
- sorry I am spelling it out a bit, but I would have thought that you undestood endorsements, and it seems you dont at all.
Endorsements encourage your customers to have their animals hip scored by the time you have explained fully about the scheme, and why the endorsement
This in turn, if the score is not good, is PUBLISHED officially and recognised, and then you deal with the problem with the owner to the best of your ability and without animosity (unless you get a customer like the one who started this post) The second endorsement leads me to explain to people that the KC will not supply an export pedigree for their puppy. They can emigrate with it, they can go abroad on a passport, but not sell commercially abroad....- if they still want a puppy from me, then they know that I am there for them, for life, and Christmas picci`s.
What is your policy Pencil? You have shown yourself on here to not even honour your pledges of donations,lets hope the people concerned were not relyhing on your promise eh? and yet you blithely ignore that fact when its mentioned - is that the way you sell your puppies, and hope. Or do you have no puppies, so are not even aware of the minefield it is for all concerned to get things as right as can be. Mo.
by jaymesie51 on 27 October 2010 - 08:10
Hi Mo i can tell you the type of breeder pencil is just by going on what he has said on here, not just on this thread but all threads. Pencil will most probably not register his stock, he will breed bitches from 12 months, he will not test any of his stock ,he will not sell with a contract because once the new owner has the pup it has nothing to do with him the pup is the new owners responsibility,he will use in house dogs/bitches so that he can mate anything to anything and keep down costs,puppies will stay on bitch till ready to go most likely at 5 or 6 weeks but earlier if the new owner will take it, and he will charge the same as all responsible breeders. I think that this is a true reflection of the pencil type breeder, and the ironic thing is he comes on here and slates all the breeders who do it right . Yes Pencil this discription most definately fits you down to a T.
Jim H
Jim H
by Videx on 27 October 2010 - 10:10
The placing of a breeding endorsement on a puppy has another very important role. If a new DNA Test is discovered for a serious disease, and breeders test their breeding stock and find the disease in one or more of their stock (CARRIERS), the breeder can then verify to whom they sold any puppies from the "carriers" and more importantly, who, if any, had the breeding restriction removed so they could be bred from.
These owners could then be contacted and advised to have the DNA Test on their "obligate carrier". If any obligate carrier is then found to be a carrier, and had also produced puppies the process could be continued. Thus helping to trace all potential carriers of the disease, which would greatly assist in taking necessary steps to control and eradicate the disease in our breed. This process has happened with Juvenile Renal Dysplasia (JRD) in ours and other breeds and has proved extremely useful.
These owners could then be contacted and advised to have the DNA Test on their "obligate carrier". If any obligate carrier is then found to be a carrier, and had also produced puppies the process could be continued. Thus helping to trace all potential carriers of the disease, which would greatly assist in taking necessary steps to control and eradicate the disease in our breed. This process has happened with Juvenile Renal Dysplasia (JRD) in ours and other breeds and has proved extremely useful.
by pencil on 27 October 2010 - 10:10
bazza.
are you saying that you have contracts that state that the new puppy owner cannot breed from THEIR dog unless you say its alright. ( do you tell the big establist breeders the same thing- should they want one of your pups? ).
one of your FACTS I don't understand-how can the affix be on the data base if the new pups litter is not registered with any one ????
jaymesie-
its so easy to wind you up its become boring.are you where the word drivel came from.cos you spout a lot of it, in your atempt to curry favour with the big boys.
penny.
doh! i think i understand-but i still think the public having paid a lot for the pup should be allowed their own choices,that why i say they are foolish to agree any retrictions.on a slightly different train of thought, would you say that there were more NON show people than show people, the answer of course is Yes, and just if not more responsible human beings !
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