For KellyJ - Page 8

Seems like Ringsport requires a much tougher dog. Seeing Labs,Goldens, and other breeds regularly getting titled in Schuzhund, to me, isnt saying much for the sport.

So this is how she is seeing things, and she has to accomplish something due to the fact that she is seeing sporting breeds getting Sch titles ? 

Quote: I was trying to get some information on why MONDIO is so much harder than Schutzhund.

Harder jumps, object guard, escort, search is harder, call off is harder, scent discrimination exercise is harder, the list goes on. Heeling is easier. LOL

Thanks Jeff!

I mean Ray Charles can see that!

Jeff has pointed out why he thinks Mondio is tougher than Schutzhund.

One of the biggest things my BLIND eyes see...is that schutzhund is so ROUTINE! The decoy works the dogs the same way...even down to the stick hits! Could it be possible that the slightest change in routine may throw off even the highest scoring dogs? Just a question....

Seems like in Ring, the decoys test your dog in everyway possible to determine its true working ability and courage.

Now what makes you guys think Schutzhund is tougher than Mondio?

Where are all these other breeds of working dogs getting titled? If so good for them and their trainers!!!! Is this another KellyJ quote? For god sakes, she has established it herself that she knows very little!!

Jeff I know now that you have never done anything in Schutzhund, because if you had you would know that those breeds of dogs mentioned are not regularly getting titled!! When they do they are backed by a total different style of training and really good handlers and training directors. Also it is not always about just a title, but higher level competition. It is nothing like MR where anyone can show at a NATIONAL level with no requirements!! There is a higher level of dogs going to Regionals and from there on to Nationals and from there on to a World Stage in Schutzhund that is the hard part. Not to mention training a dog to do unnatural objectives, with a goal of achieving perfection is DAMN HARD as well.  

Jeff there were 17 handler/dog teams competing at the National Level of MR in all stages! At a Schutzhund National level there is somewhere around 120 and more Handler/Dog teams, that were selected from who knows how many teams that tried and just weren't good enough.

Harder jumps, object guard, escort, search is harder, call off is harder, scent discrimination exercise is harder, the list goes on. Heeling is easier.  

I would like you to compare each one of the tasks listed above to a similar task in Schutzhund as close as you can!! Try not yo stay up too late tonight!!!!

None of these tasks are harder to teach or accomplish with time and training? If my Schutzhund III bitch wasn't loaded with pups right now and still training to trial at Western KG Regionals in June I would dedicate this summer and upcoming fall to training her in MR, if that is the hard stuff another title wouldn't hurt!!      

Ask these kind folks if they have ever seen these breeds participating in schutzhund....

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins_read/255799.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins_read/223850.html?mnr=223850&pagen=2

Read what Molly says here about  Labs and Border Collies at the HOT championships...

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/125391/page/3

What can I say I have learned from the best....lol

Quote:  If my Schutzhund III bitch wasn't loaded with pups right now and still training to trial at Western KG Regionals in June I would dedicate this summer and upcoming fall to training her in MR, if that is the hard stuff another title wouldn't hurt!!

To bad you put the IF there. Sounds like an excuse. I would like to see your bitch title to MR3, however, it is going to take more than a summer and a fall.

Quote: Jeff there were 17 handler/dog teams competing at the National Level of MR in all stages! At a Schutzhund National level there is somewhere around 120 and more Handler/Dog teams, that were selected from who knows how many teams that tried and just weren't good enough.

I would imagine since Sch has been around since the 70's.  The numbers alone tell you it is easier to title than MR. 

Quote: Jeff I know now that you have never done anything in Schutzhund, because if you had you would know that those breeds of dogs mentioned are not regularly getting titled!!

Of course, what was I thinking ? I cannot believe that I said that those breeds were regularly titled................ oh wait, I didn't say they were regularly getting titled.

I still don't understand why there is an argument about this. They are different sports, emphasizing different things. In my little pea brain, I see SchH as being hard because of the routine; to achieve a perfect routine is a ton of work. Mondio is hard because it's not so much a routine and you have to be prepared for the unexpected. I might not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier (ok, that's a lie), but I see this argument as quite pointless. Maybe it's a guy thing. 

I like the phrases that have come out of this thread, though. I like "Jeff It" very much, and I also like "Vinny." LOL  Thanks to both VinCENT and Alboe for those. 

I sure hope I don't have to scan all 3 of the completely FULL scorebooks belonging to Eagle, the dog I bred, raised, trained and titled myself to 25X Schh3, Fh2, many-times FH including FH Champion at a National event, member of the FCI World Team.....  not to mention the several other scorebooks full of club, Regional and National event stamps from the several other dogs I trained myself....

Whip it out molly.... since we can't find any working videos of him around, he's becoming more myth than legend.

have any german shepherds came in the top three nationals ? for any ring sport? just curious. It is pretty cool he is trying to or is creating gsd that will excell and compete with malls in this sport. If dobermans can do it so can gsds! :)

2009 Ulko placed 2nd at the Championship of France. His handler now has a puppy from Laurent, Esko's breeder.

 http://www.chiens-de-france.com/site_eleveur/index.php?rub=chiens&page=fiche&ID_ELEVEUR=12528&ID_SITE=13998&ID_CHIEN=143432&TABLE=t_chien_03&TITRE=  

Hope that link works.

The Dobermann placed at the MR1 level. Terry says she has some young up and comers, and I really would like to wish her success going all the way to MR3 with them. Her female she placed with is a Sch3, and she says that she is going to just do Mondio with one of the younger pups. 

.........."but I see this argument as quite pointless. Maybe it's a guy thing. "

 

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!